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  1. isaac223

    isaac223 Senior Member

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    Did Manual Elevators Ever Use Other Cars as a Counterweight?

    Discussion in 'Research' started by isaac223, Mar 27, 2020.

    I seem to recall reading at some point that some elevators used other elevator cars as a counterweight. How exactly did manual elevators work in this regard? I'm writing a mystery novel set in the 1940/50's England, and the mechanics of manual elevators, including being able to "deadstop" between floors, is an important element of the locked room murder puzzle. Though less important, the nature of the elevator's counterweight would help me establish an extra point in the crime.
     
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  2. Cave Troll

    Cave Troll It's Coffee O'clock everywhere. Contributor

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    IDK, since most would have been electric with a manual toggle switch
    run by the operator to move the elevator car, so I would assume since
    the winch is tide to the lever switch that they could in theory put it
    in neutral at any point locking the car between floors if they wanted too.

    Though I suppose in theory they could use weighted cars for counter weights
    provided the building has multiple elevators. But ultimately you could just
    rely on the switch breaking freezing the winch in place trapping the occupents
    between floors.
     
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  3. Rzero

    Rzero Reluctant voice of his generation Contributor

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    I can't say it never happened, but the documentary I watched about the history of elevators (PBS or History Channel, I forget.) didn't show anything like that. It seems to me that it would counteract some of the safety features they've used since the beginning.
     
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  4. JLT

    JLT Contributor Contributor

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    As one of the very few people who have actually operated a manual elevator (a freight elevator in a two-story appliance store), I can state that I could see no counterweight of any sort, although I concede that there may have one that exactly matched the weight of the empty car itself.

    It's hard to imagine how another car could serve as an effective counterweight, since it would have to be out of use or loaded approximately the same as the full car, but going in the other direction.

    The only other elevator that I've seen that used cars as a sort of counterweight were the "Paternosters" once common in some European buildings. They were individual cars that were always in motion, in a continuous loop that went like a conveyor belt:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paternoster_lift

    The only thing I could add to that article was that I was told that the name was derived not from the rosary, but from the "Lord's Prayer" that people were thinking of, and were perhaps silently praying, as they rode it
     
  5. isaac223

    isaac223 Senior Member

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    Thanks. The Paternoster performs the function I need for my story!
     
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  6. JLT

    JLT Contributor Contributor

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    I might add that I have some personal experience with the Paternosters as well. When I was nine years old, my family moved to Frankfurt, Germany, where the US Army's headquarters was in the IG Farben Building. My older brother and I would often ride the Paternosters there, and debated whether the entire car flipped over or not. Being smarter than I was, he pointed out that if they did, there would be footprints on the ceiling. But still it was a thrill to ride it all the way to the top and then then down again.
     
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  7. Homer Potvin

    Homer Potvin A tombstone hand and a graveyard mind Staff Supporter Contributor

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    Jeez. Any Zyklon B laying around?
     
  8. JLT

    JLT Contributor Contributor

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    Not when I was there. But you're right that that chemical conglomerate was the one that produced it. After the war, components of the company were split off and became, among other things, Bayer and BASF (the recording tape people).

    The building has a fascinating post-war history as, first, the headquarters of the US Army in Germany and now as the main building for the Goethe University, with its name changed in honor of its designer, Hans Poelzig.

    The whole story can be found here:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IG_Farben_Building

    But since Homer Knew about Zyklon B, he probably knows most of it.

    I have another connection with the building. When I was nine, I fell into the reflecting pool when I was sailing model boats there, and was fished out by a passing GI.
     
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  9. Thundair

    Thundair Contributor Contributor

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    I remeber this one from Nanylon Berlin I think.
     
  10. Iain Aschendale

    Iain Aschendale Lying, dog-faced pony Marine Supporter Contributor

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    Jeebus, shades of The Fifth Element there. Guess Germans are too smart and coordinated to need safety regulations.

    At least the ones who live to adulthood, that is.
     
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  11. Catrin Lewis

    Catrin Lewis Contributor Contributor Contest Winner 2023 Community Volunteer

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    Although it could be pointed out that repeating the Lord's Prayer is part of the saying of the rosary. At least I think it is: I'm not Roman Catholic, myself.
     
  12. Iain Aschendale

    Iain Aschendale Lying, dog-faced pony Marine Supporter Contributor

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    You mean they don't just count beads and mutter "The rosary, the rosary, the rosary" over and over?

    Hint: I'm not a Catholic either. :)
     
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  13. JLT

    JLT Contributor Contributor

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    Yes, that was mentioned in the Wikipedia article.
     
  14. Wreybies

    Wreybies Thrice Retired Supporter Contributor

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    We had two of these at Tempelhof, just on our side of the base, so I can only assume the German side of the complex also had them. I was so fascinated by this thing. And then I learned the very G.I. game of getting sloppy drunk off-base, coming home, and trying to get to my floor with this deathlevator, as my friend Lacy came to call it.
     
  15. Some Guy

    Some Guy Manguage Langler Supporter Contributor

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    And live!
     
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