The 'Rules' of writing.

Discussion in 'General Writing' started by Crazy Ivan, Jun 20, 2007.

  1. Wreybies

    Wreybies Thrice Retired Supporter Contributor

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    I know this is a funny, but it's also on point. Yes, you can do a few other things with a screwdriver, like easily opening a gallon of paint. That is another thing this tool can do quite effectively. And in the same way, many verbal tools can also do more than one job. But that's not a rule thing. It's a resume. ;)
     
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  2. Wreybies

    Wreybies Thrice Retired Supporter Contributor

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    61i5G6kx3CL._AC_SX355_.jpg

    Don't use semicolons.

    Show, don't tell.

    These are the abject worst because they are the very acme of lassitude. Why does the semicolon exist if we're not to use it? And frankly, everyone who has ever told me "show, don't tell" has turned out not to have an effing clue what either of those terms even means in the context of their joint use. Semicolons and telling both have a purpose. If you don't know how to explain that purpose, please don't muddy the waters by throwing a "never use" wrench into the machinery.

    To the OP: When someone comes at you with that kind of phrasing - don't do this, never do that - and that's all you get, no explanation, nothing else, walk away from that person and find someone who actually knows what they're on about.
     
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  3. Friedrich Kugelschreiber

    Friedrich Kugelschreiber marshmallow Contributor

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    Is this something that people actually say? Why?
     
  4. Wreybies

    Wreybies Thrice Retired Supporter Contributor

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    Yes, it is, and the only reason I can fathom is that they heard it, plain and bald, without any follow-up, and a new “never do” rule was given life; else, they do know how to use it and are too lazy to explain themselves.
     
  5. Xoic

    Xoic Prognosticator of Arcana Ridiculosum Contributor Blogerator

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    I think a big part of this problem is that certain kinds of people don't tolerate ambiguity well and want everything to be simple dichotomies. So when they hear the correct versions of these rules ("Don't use cliches unless—don't use semicolons except") they just don't comprehend the second half and drop it, or maybe when they try to remember it later that part has just conveniently atrophied away. And they give you the black and white version that makes them feel good inside.

    Another possibility—some of them might be just trying to learn the rules, and the complexity is too much to remember, when they grope for it they come up with the simplified version.
     
  6. Joseph F

    Joseph F New Member

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    I'm not suggesting slipping into Dadaism and eschewing any semblance of conventional grammar or story structure. Only that following the rules too closely is a detriment. Or filling your head with too many rules which brings me to a thought I had.

    I think some, not all, people who struggle with the so-called rules come by the struggle earnestly. I think many people are looking to improve their craft then run into bad information or maybe good information conveyed in such a way that it acts as a snare and not a scaffolding. Maybe they encounter advice that is conveyed in a dogmatic way that does not allow for any organic development of a story or they absorb so many rules and pieces of advice that by the time they've ticked through all the rules and made sure they've followed each one to the letter, they're utterly exhausted, stymied, and not even through the first sentence.
     
  7. Xoic

    Xoic Prognosticator of Arcana Ridiculosum Contributor Blogerator

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    Not criticizing your position or what you said here, you just happened on the right combination of words that set off this thought-chain. There's the old opposition between what's called the letter of the law and the spirit of the law. We can just change law to rule and shed some light on something (which I mentioned before on this thread using different language).

    Trying to follow the letter of the law means thinking very consciously about precisely what's meant, by definition, and slavishly doing what you think is meant.

    On the other hand, the spirit of the law means to abstract out the essence of what's meant, to understand it and then absorb it into your toolbox, to be used as and when appropriate.

    It's the difference between memorizing something in school so you can regurgitate it later word for word, in which case you probably don't understand it, or understanding it so you can expound on it later in your own words.

    When I hear people say they get frustrated because there's so much to learn and they get all tangled up trying to remember it all, it makes me think they must be trying to memorize the letter of the rules, rather than to understand the spirit of them. And one problem is that rote memorization is so often rewarded in school that many people think that's what learning means.
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2020
  8. Cloudymoon

    Cloudymoon Member

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    Rules are made to be broken - aren't they?
    :brb:
    Re the semi-colon; I love it. Think I'll start a campaign to save it; if it's not against the rules of course.
     
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  9. TheOtherPromise

    TheOtherPromise Senior Member

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    I do think that one needs to be careful about following these writing rules too closely. Especially since a lot of them don't mean what they say. Show, don't Tell, for instance, is not telling writers to erase all elements of telling in their work. It (as far as I can tell) is merely a warning about the overuse of Tell which can negatively impact the quality of a writer's, especially a beginner's, work. Because it is too easy to skew heavily on the Tell side and not have enough Show.

    Likewise I remember in school being explicitly told that a sentence cannot start with and or but. For the longest time I thought this a hard and fast rule. Then recently I looked it up just to double check. Turns out it's not a rule at all. Teacher's just got tired of seeing children start every sentence with and or but, so they started teaching them that doing so was incorrect. While there was a reason for the rule, it's easy to fall into the trap of starting too many sentences with one or the other, the actual rule as taught, was wrong.
     
  10. Joseph F

    Joseph F New Member

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    That's just what I was getting at. If a person tries to word for word follow all these rules and bits of advice it will prove crippling. This is problematic especially because there is a lot of information that is contradictory. Show don't tell is a great example. All of story telling is telling. It's right there in the word. Or another one that I've heard is never to start with the weather. Neuromancer is famous for it's sky the color of tv tuned to a dead channel. I mean, that image alone is iconic yet it flies in the face of the so-called rules. It's for sure narrative format and sentence structure doesn't escape interpretation. Naked Lunch is full of exceptions to these rules.

    I think anything can be done well. I think knowing the ground rules is important but I think it's equally important to know how and when to break rules for the sake of the story you want to tell. Each story, in my opinion, requires its own unique solution so that a one-size-fits-all approach in many cases is not going to be applicable. Except in those cases when it is. Because there are exceptions to all the rules and places where breaking the rules is the only way to move forward.
     
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  11. Xoic

    Xoic Prognosticator of Arcana Ridiculosum Contributor Blogerator

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    While I'm with you on most of this, I have to disagree on this one—this is just a semantic game. Yes, technically the word Tell is included in Storytelling, but there's definitely a difference between showing and telling within a narrative. And there are definitely times when telling is far more economical and useful than showing, which takes more time and can become exhausting to a reader if you do too much of it.

    I'd say showing is for when you want more impact, more of an immersive feel for the reader, to conjure powerful images, and telling is to speed through information that doesn't need to be dramatized.
     
  12. Xoic

    Xoic Prognosticator of Arcana Ridiculosum Contributor Blogerator

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    I had a thought about this perennial topic today.

    I think it makes a lot of sense to think about writing books as maps to help you navigate your way through the wilderness, avoid the known pitfalls, and find good ways to get to your destination. This fits right in with calling them guides rather than rules.

    Sure, you can try to hack your way through the woods and head in the general direction you think you want to go, but it's actually a good idea to consult with people who have made the journey before you. They probably already found some of the thorn bushes and deadfalls blocking the way, the giant ravines you can't cross, as well as the sweet open ways and clearings where you can just stroll along.
     
  13. GraceLikePain

    GraceLikePain Senior Member

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    Just figure out what you wanna write and then write it to the best of your ability. Any rules you encounter you can decide to follow or not as you go along. Besides, most rules seem to be about grammar and structure. Grammar and structure do not a story make.
     
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  14. More

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    I'm a beginner, so I understand the difficultly some beginner have . To say there are no rules or rules are for boring writers, is not true . If you would like to publish your work , some of main reasons for rejection are , not following the submission guidelines , not being the type of work that they publish and the manuscript would involve too much work to make it publishable. Even if you are a good writer and you can write a good story , the publishers know there are others writers just as good and will do the work before submitting to them .
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2020
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  15. deadrats

    deadrats Contributor Contributor

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    I get it. Everyone wants to be a rule breaker. But do you want to be a rebel more than a writer? I think the thing about the so-called rules is that they're not always easy to implement or put into practice. But they are designed to make your writing stronger. The rules are really just the basics, and understanding them is a good foundation to have. But anyone reading more how-to than literature is already starting on the wrong foot. Reading actual literature will show you examples of the rules working and rule breaking working. I don't think you can actually make much sense of the rules if you haven't read enough to recall examples from stories of these things in play.
     
  16. Richach

    Richach Contributor Contributor Contest Winner 2022

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    As a beginner, learning a bunch of new rules has not been conducive to my writing - short term. It served to fill my head with knowledge but impede creativity. Once I absorbed the information (it took a while!) the creativity partially came back, only this time I was armed with what I had learned. So I had taken leaps forward. The next phase; how do I apply what I have learnt and most importantly in what measure. This is another phase of learning which is impeding my creativity although to a lesser extent. The end goal is closer so I am not complaining, it is just how the learning cycle goes. Sure the creativity suffers in the short term but it will benefit long term. Just seems to take an age!

    I am also aware that we never stop learning and that we redefine rules based on experience. Thing is we got to write, got to release something along the way. Otherwise, we are not writers we are just academics.
     
  17. Xoic

    Xoic Prognosticator of Arcana Ridiculosum Contributor Blogerator

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    Don't try to learn everything all at once, pace yourself. Just work on a couple of things at a time, try to incorporate them into your writing. Then, after those are absorbed, work on a couple more. You didn't learn to spell or write or talk all at once, it took years, and then more years to get really good at it.
     
  18. JFB

    JFB New Member

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    The utility of a rule is akin to training wheels on a bicycle; in the beginning it helps you learn a new skill (and, with any luck, keep your dental bills down) but once you've progressed beyond a certain level it becomes a hindrance. At that juncture you begin to consider how you might break rules - sparingly, at first - and more important, why.

    Speaking broadly...rules are useful to the beginner only to the extent of developing a voice, after which point said voice modifies or ignores the rules as needed.
     
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  19. jannert

    jannert Retired Mod Supporter Contributor

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    I really like that. The 'Rules' of writing are like training wheels. Good analogy.

    And learning the 'why' is SO important.

    It's important to know what writers' tools can do. Tools like narrator POV, character POV, dialogue, narrative, description, italics for thoughts, chapter breaks, scene breaks, prologues, epilogues, word choices, starting a story in media res, foreshadowing, etc. Learn what each tool can do for your reader. Learn the pitfalls of using these tools. Consider what effect they will have on your story in particular. Then don't be afraid to use these tools, as needed.

    You won't use every tool in every instance, but taking the stance that certain tools should never be used—or should always be used—will hamstring you as a writer.
     
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2020
  20. JFB

    JFB New Member

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    Thanks. What can I say? I'm good at finding brick walls.

    ...usually with my forehead.
     
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