1. Adam Bolander

    Adam Bolander Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2010
    Messages:
    405
    Likes Received:
    194

    ...

    Discussion in 'Plot Development' started by Adam Bolander, Jul 12, 2020.

    ...
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2022
  2. HarrySTruman

    HarrySTruman New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2020
    Messages:
    18
    Likes Received:
    21
    Location:
    Northern VA
    The second idea sounds more interesting to me. Would the spirit animals be sentient, with their own personalities? (Just curious.)

    Before I caught on to the fact that these animals are only visible to the skinwalkers, I was picturing actual pets that merge with their owners... people turning into hamsters and goldfish and bearded lizards. That would be a whole different kind of story. :)
     
    Adam Bolander likes this.
  3. Adam Bolander

    Adam Bolander Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2010
    Messages:
    405
    Likes Received:
    194
    ...
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2022
  4. Rzero

    Rzero Reluctant voice of his generation Contributor

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2018
    Messages:
    1,751
    Likes Received:
    3,107
    Location:
    Texas
    I like this bit. I might have voted for option one, but this concept opens up so many possibilities in story and character.
     
    Adam Bolander likes this.
  5. Wreybies

    Wreybies Thrice Retired Supporter Contributor

    Joined:
    May 1, 2008
    Messages:
    23,826
    Likes Received:
    20,818
    Location:
    El Tembloroso Caribe
    I like both ideas, but there's something about the first idea, the way it reboots the concept into modern terms that I like. I also like the possibilities I see with the importance of the physical item itself. Like, if I snatch your skinwalker wolf jacket, will it work for me? Is the power imbued solely to the item or do I need to be "skinwalk-ready" in order for it to work? What if I don the wolk jacket and the cheetah vest at the same time, what then?

    These are not questions for which I expect answers. Just possible direction/queries for that first idea.
     
  6. HarrySTruman

    HarrySTruman New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2020
    Messages:
    18
    Likes Received:
    21
    Location:
    Northern VA
    This makes me wonder what would happen if one of them chose NOT to be subservient...
     
    Adam Bolander likes this.
  7. TheOtherPromise

    TheOtherPromise Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2020
    Messages:
    369
    Likes Received:
    411
    It depends on the tone you want for your story. If you go with the first idea the story is more grounded in the physical plane, whereas the second introduces more spiritual elements to it.

    I feel like the second one better fits my understanding of the skinwalker mythos. Which, for lack of better words, is a form of demon worship where the would-be skinwalker opens themselves up to demonic forces in exchange for power by committing certain acts of pure evil. Though I admit that this understanding is heavily biased by my christian background, but since the Navajo people prefer not to talk about skinwalkers to outsiders, there are gaps in understanding that want to be filled.
     
    jannert and Adam Bolander like this.
  8. Adam Bolander

    Adam Bolander Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2010
    Messages:
    405
    Likes Received:
    194
    ...
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2022
    jannert likes this.
  9. Naomasa298

    Naomasa298 HP: 10/190 Status: Confused Contributor

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2019
    Messages:
    5,367
    Likes Received:
    6,186
    Location:
    The White Rose county, UK
     
  10. Naomasa298

    Naomasa298 HP: 10/190 Status: Confused Contributor

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2019
    Messages:
    5,367
    Likes Received:
    6,186
    Location:
    The White Rose county, UK
    Combine the two. They must have a bond with the spirit animal in order to use the pelt. It's not as if anyone can transform by wearing an animal skin, otherwise we'd be overrun with skinwalker cows.
     
    Adam Bolander likes this.
  11. Adam Bolander

    Adam Bolander Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2010
    Messages:
    405
    Likes Received:
    194
    ...
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2022
  12. Naomasa298

    Naomasa298 HP: 10/190 Status: Confused Contributor

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2019
    Messages:
    5,367
    Likes Received:
    6,186
    Location:
    The White Rose county, UK
    They kill the animal in an honourable hunt, and give thanks to its spirit, which then bonds with them and reveals the secret of how to prepare the skin.
     
    Adam Bolander likes this.
  13. Adam Bolander

    Adam Bolander Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2010
    Messages:
    405
    Likes Received:
    194
    ...
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2022
  14. HarrySTruman

    HarrySTruman New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2020
    Messages:
    18
    Likes Received:
    21
    Location:
    Northern VA
    Just tossing ideas around here... What if, long ago, the spirit animals were literal animals that accompanied their skinwalkers -- but over time the animals were hunted (or killed off systematically, because people were afraid of their magical nature)? Their ghosts might still hang around the pelts, but would only merge with someone they trusted.
     
    jannert and Adam Bolander like this.
  15. Naomasa298

    Naomasa298 HP: 10/190 Status: Confused Contributor

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2019
    Messages:
    5,367
    Likes Received:
    6,186
    Location:
    The White Rose county, UK
    Sounds like Dr. Moreau.
     
    Adam Bolander likes this.
  16. Adam Bolander

    Adam Bolander Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2010
    Messages:
    405
    Likes Received:
    194
    ...
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2022
    jannert likes this.
  17. Mckk

    Mckk Member Supporter Contributor

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2010
    Messages:
    6,541
    Likes Received:
    4,776
    I find the physicality of the first idea much more compelling. It's tangible, physical, and there's a gravity about it that the second idea simply doesn't have. Call it a preference between say, reading a crime novel vs reading a horror novel. That the first idea is so physical, for me, makes it more credible and also far creepier - a physical second skin of an animal enveloping you? Think about that for a minute. It's violent, bloody, and disturbing, and then to be completely engulfed within it by choice. It says something about the mental state or even mental strength of the skinwalker.

    The second idea of spirit animals - it feels cliche, like it's been done. The spirit animal would just become another supernatural character that, if you keep the it being subservient to the skinwalker idea, can essentially do nothing. Unless the plot idea is how one resists mental and spiritual possession and corruption, this second idea just doesn't do the same thing for me as the first one does.
     
    jannert likes this.
  18. jannert

    jannert Retired Mod Supporter Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2013
    Messages:
    17,674
    Likes Received:
    19,891
    Location:
    Scotland
    Actually, your radar is correct, @Mckk. This has been done, or something very similar. The daemons in Phillip Pullman's His Dark Materials operate something like this. They are animals, bonded to a particular human, and the humans and animals can talk to each other. The only difference is that the human and animal don't actually morph in to one another. This similarity doesn't mean the idea won't work, but do be careful that you're not unintentionally copying or echoing how Pullman works it, @Adam Bolander , or somebody might think you are.

    I'm also a little bit concerned about calling this phenomenon 'skinwalking' if that is how the Navajo actually refer to their version of it. If there is some other name you could call it, I'd pick one—out of respect to their beliefs. Again, you can write whatever you want, but make sure you either research it deeply, so you get it 'right', or understand that a lighthearted use of something that's sacred to their culture will be upsetting for them.
     
  19. Naomasa298

    Naomasa298 HP: 10/190 Status: Confused Contributor

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2019
    Messages:
    5,367
    Likes Received:
    6,186
    Location:
    The White Rose county, UK
    In early European beliefs, werewolves put on wolf skins to turn into wolves.
     
  20. Adam Bolander

    Adam Bolander Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2010
    Messages:
    405
    Likes Received:
    194
    ...
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2022
    jannert likes this.
  21. jannert

    jannert Retired Mod Supporter Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2013
    Messages:
    17,674
    Likes Received:
    19,891
    Location:
    Scotland
    Right. Let me rephrase that. Skinwalkers are part of Navajo cultural mythology.

    Again, feel free to use the term, but be aware that, unless you get the details right, Navajos are unlikely to be impressed. You could bypass the whole problem by simply re-naming the phenomenon, if you're not actually writing about the Navajo boogeymen.

    I'm not trying to force you into PC territory. However, it might be worthwhile to use skinwalkers as a basic idea—a starting point—and develop them your own way ...and create a new name for them. Rather than look like you're getting the Navajo 'skinwalker' mythology wrong.
     
    ruskaya and TheOtherPromise like this.
  22. ruskaya

    ruskaya Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2020
    Messages:
    571
    Likes Received:
    582
    Location:
    not a pro, yet very curious
    I personally like option 2 a lot better: the animal jumping into the character for transformation and the inclusion of the animal into the story as a character, because their spirits might struggle between them when "united" because of disagreement (maybe the spirit animal follows a myth or some ancient principle of conduct, while the MC is driven by love or compassion even when he knows the outcome will be disastrous, for instance). I think you can find a twist that will keep it away from becoming a cliche.

    I think the jacket would fit more a children's adventure story or a superhero story. But that is my first impression on the idea.
     
    jannert and Adam Bolander like this.
  23. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Admin Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2016
    Messages:
    22,616
    Likes Received:
    25,918
    Location:
    East devon/somerset border
    In the second harry dresden book ( I can't remember the name but the one with werewolves) there are various types of werewolves and one type transform by putting on a charmed belt of wolf skin... if i recall correctly anyone who has possession of the belt can transform
     
    Adam Bolander and Naomasa298 like this.
  24. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Admin Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2016
    Messages:
    22,616
    Likes Received:
    25,918
    Location:
    East devon/somerset border
    Just spitballing but i quite like the plot idea that the MC doesn't know they're a skin walker until they buy a jacket from a second hand shop, and 'kinnel man I've turned into a leopard
     
  25. Naomasa298

    Naomasa298 HP: 10/190 Status: Confused Contributor

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2019
    Messages:
    5,367
    Likes Received:
    6,186
    Location:
    The White Rose county, UK
    That'd be fun if they turned into a mink or even better, a baby seal.
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice