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  1. ruskaya

    ruskaya Contributor Contributor

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    writing choice: YA or adult (fantasy)?

    Discussion in 'Fantasy' started by ruskaya, Jun 12, 2020.

    I am about to start writing a novel. I already made a plan for the plot of the first third of the story, and I feel time has come for me to start writing the book to advance towards the end. (I thought I was a gardener but I am more an in between a gardener and an architect).

    The story can serve as a YA or an adult fantasy, and I cannot envision which one I want to write. Initially I wanted to write a YA, I feel the story has the right elements, including the age of MCs and a romance that fit the genre, and no gruesome violence (in case you wonder). However, now I am debating, because it seems YA tends to be in the first person/present tense, and I might feel more comfortable to write in third person.

    I feel my understanding of the two age-ranges are limited, what am I thinking wrong about those?
     
  2. Cave Troll

    Cave Troll It's Coffee O'clock everywhere. Contributor

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    You can write it in 3rd person limited present if you want,
    and write the sub-genre you feel more comfortable writing
    in.
    I think it would be best to start writing and let the story
    dictate whether it is YA or A, based upon your progression.
    If you're not sure you can always share a chapter in the
    Workshop to get feedback in regards to which direction it
    is going along with other helpful feedback. :)

    Good luck. :)
     
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  3. sahlmi

    sahlmi Active Member

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    If the writing, characters, and story are good. I'm fairly sure the pov/tense won't matter much. That would probably only be noticed if any of the above were subpar. I don't personally care for YA, but there are tons who love it, so I agree with the above--let the story dictate which.
     
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  4. Richach

    Richach Contributor Contributor Contest Winner 2022

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    Seriously, write the first draft and let the story germinate. Otherwise, you may run the risk of rewriting large swaths all over again. I am sure you appreciate that as a writer there is quite enough rewriting to be done so don't add to that burden!

    Choosing the point of view is more about what fits the story rather than how you feel about it. For example, if you have multiple main characters or just one or two will impact the point of view. What you don't want to do is write the story and - you guessed it! rewrite it again because you chose the wrong point of view. That said it is definitely a good idea to just pick a point of view to cast off with. If you are still not confident or sure about point of view then use the forum for practice. Enter Comps etc. Sorry I am becoming a bit bossy but just trying to help, honestly!

    Finally, have you thought about urban fantasy? Harry Potter started out as Middle Grade - YA ish fantasy and turned into an urban fantasy by the end of the series. You may not like HP (it is like marmite apparently, or vegemite or whatever the US equivalent is) but it is a worthwhile exercise recognising how the books evolved.

    Final tip, write the first draft. Please do this above anything else. Only then can we try help you.

    Best of luck!!!
     
  5. ruskaya

    ruskaya Contributor Contributor

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    The reason why I keep hesitating is that I find that writing YA or adult changes the voice completely to a degree that won't be resolved with a quick fix after I finished writing the first draft. It will change how characters think and approach situations and their relationships with others. At least that is my personal experience with writing, which seems radically different from yours...? But I think you are right, I need to start writing even if I am not settled on the age level, because thinking about it hasn't made me decide. I should start writing one chapter and see how it feels. Thanks for your suggestions, it has helped me grow a better sense of what I should do. :superwink:
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2020
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  6. cosmic lights

    cosmic lights Contributor Contributor

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    Just to give a different angel on this. I think differently as an adult to the way I thought as a teen. I'm much more worldly-wise and had developed a BS detector I didn't have as a teen. I'm a lot more cautious and my actions reflect that. I think before I speak now and can relate to others because I have no life experience. I do find that age dictates a novel and the events to a degree. Some actions just seem to better suit a teen whereas with an adult their actions might warrant an explanation.

    What you could do if a few tester chapters. Write one or two in teen POV and another in adult and just see what feels better to you. I think sometimes teens can be more easily lead and don't see danger the way adults do. I can look back now and think 'thank God my parents stepped in there.' At the time I "hated" them for it.
     
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  7. Kalisto

    Kalisto Senior Member

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    If perspective is the only issue, then be the first. Start a fashion. Write a YA novel in third person. Nothing wrong with that.
     
  8. ruskaya

    ruskaya Contributor Contributor

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    my point exactly: writing for an adult or a teenager implies completely different writing. Well, that is my experience and the way I think about it. :superyesh:
     
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  9. Sithis001

    Sithis001 New Member

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    What matters is the story itself. Let the publisher worry about the target demographic.
     
  10. J.T. Woody

    J.T. Woody Book Witch Contributor

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    There is a 3rd option.... "NA" (New Adult). Its I mid genre. Teens who feel like they are "too old" to be reading YA, but aren't ready for heavy adult stuff.
    I literally just learned about it this year.

    Why not go that route?

    But honestly, people are going to read what they want to read. We have teens reading adult and adult reading YA. Makes no difference lol
     
  11. jannert

    jannert Retired Mod Supporter Contributor

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    My own feeling - and take it with a grain of salt, as I'm an old bird - is that labeling anything YA or NA or whatever it might be will limit your readership. There aren't many adults who are going to pick up a book labeled YA or NA to read for themselves—because they'll assume it's filled with teenagery angst, etc, and not bother. If you call it Fantasy, and it's well-written, however, it may well appeal to all age ranges.

    I remember back when the only age divisions were 'children' and 'adult.' If a teenager picked up a book that was too difficult for them, they would simply put it back. However, many teenagers DID read books that today would not be classified as YA ...and loved them. And many adults read books that might today be classified as YA, and loved them.

    I'd say don't pre-judge your audience. I know there are publishers specifically looking for YA and NA ...and I suppose you have to go with that, if you're attempting to get traditionally published. I do accept that times change. But I'd still prefer to judge for myself.
     
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  12. Richach

    Richach Contributor Contributor Contest Winner 2022

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    I think the only consideration is what is age appropriate. There should be clear definitions between middle grade and YA. Not so much with YA and Adult although Adult fantasy may sound like the dirty mack brigade! Not that there is anything wrong with that kind of thing. (10 hail marys...bless us and save us :oops:).

    I think your right @jannert we should never restrict the potential readership.
     
  13. Kalisto

    Kalisto Senior Member

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    I hate to disagree, but the majority of YA novels are read by adults. Twilight, Hunger Games, and Divergent all had significant adult readership.
     
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  14. jannert

    jannert Retired Mod Supporter Contributor

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    Yeah, I know. And Harry Potter—a 'children's book'— got read by lots of adults as well—including my elderly husband, who loved the whole series. I read the first two HP books out of curiosity, thought they were well-written and interesting, but not enough to carry on with the rest of them. I remember thinking, "I probably would have loved these books when I was a kid."

    I know the YA designation puts me off. I would only read books with the YA label out of curiosity, if they become popular and I want to know what all the fuss is about. I can't see myself picking up new unknown books labeled YA. I'm no longer a teenager, and I don't have teenager mindset when I'm reading. Think of all the restrictions there are on YA books—and yeah, there are restrictions, which we discuss quite frequently on this forum. What can and can't be depicted, what kind of language can be used, etc. I find these restrictions limiting. Same as I don't load up with children's books either, when I'm at a bookstore. I'm just not there any more.

    That being said, one of my favourite books of all time is Old Yeller. However, I read it for the first when I was young ...and I have read it many times since. It never loses its impact for me, unlike some other books I read when I was young. Would I have read Old Yeller as an adult for the first time, if it had been labeled "YA?" Probably not.

    I think quite a few good books might get buried with a YA tag on them, simply because adults are likely to pass them by. Take that limiting label off, and you might find MORE people reading the books.
     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2020
  15. ruskaya

    ruskaya Contributor Contributor

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    I like the writing in Harry Potter, but never got past the first book because it's not the kind of story that hooks me. But I, too, wish I had it read when I was a child, I think I would have loved it then.

    Just a general thought. As far as I remember, when I was a child/early teen, what was considered YA were adventure novels, romantic or mystery, some fantasy. I preferred the classics Tom Sawyer, Treasure Island, Anne of Green Gables, the Neverending Story, and the like. In all of them the key word "adventure" was embedded in some form, even if just in the MC's imaginary. Nowadays YA is about giving teens understanding of their own situation (emotional changes and reality of becoming part of society) and what makes them "teen". This is my impression but it has struck me how YA has given the opportunity to reconsider what is childhood and the transformation into adulthood.
     
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  16. J.T. Woody

    J.T. Woody Book Witch Contributor

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    I agree with all of this (down to the not getting passed the first HP book as a child...I picked it up in 2nd grade and just wasnt interested)
    The "YA" that I read was also adventure or horror or fantasy. I remember reading a lot of Caroline B. Cooney. I had her vampire trilogy. Another book was "Mr. Hands" I got at a used booksale (middle school didnt really have a library; people donated books and we had book sales. Mr. Hands was one of them), about this creepy doll with claws that came to life at night and terrorized the family.
    I cant remember this one author's name, but I had a lot of her books... they were thrillers. One I remember was this teen/woman/not quite sure the age, going to her extended family's home in the country and a murder happens and the murderer is after her. I read a few historical romances from Avon Teen that I enjoyed during my Romance phase: pirate adventures, westerns, regency etc.
    Chanters of Tremaris by Kate Constable and the Books of Pellinor by Alison Croggon will forever be my favorite books of my childhood... both was about adventure and fantasy, good vs evil, magic, with a little bit of romance sprinkled in.

    I like where YA is heading- there are so many diverse books out there for teens (not as much for adults, sadly), but I dont know if I would have read them when I was that age. I wanted to ESCAPE my teenage angst. not read about other teenagers with problems.
     
  17. GraceLikePain

    GraceLikePain Senior Member

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    I agree with your sentiment on YA. As a kid, I very angrily defied any sort of emotional/feelings book for a book where "something happens", mainly adventure. Perhaps that was extreme, but mulling over teenaged problems makes them seem bigger than they are. I feel like teens need to have more of a focus on adulthood, so that they have a mental anchor for where things are going, and the fact that the teens are a transitory state.

    But there really are diverse books for adults. Actually, scratch that. What do you mean by diverse? If you mean there's a lack of adventures, I can get behind that idea.

    Oh wait, the OP asked a question.

    Uh, my recommendation to Ruskaya is to just write what you want to write, and then decide afterwards what it is. Maybe edit accordingly if your agent says otherwise. What's more important is communicating what you think and feel, rather than worrying too much about audience.
     
  18. ruskaya

    ruskaya Contributor Contributor

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    Now reading all the comments, emotionally I know you are right: I should write the story I want to write and then worry about what category it fits. But when I sit to write (I have started writing the first chapter since I wrote the first post to this thread--your comments have urged me to do so, and you were right, thanks!), something is off and I feel very ambivalent and the voice in the story changes making it inconsistent. I think I need to settle: pick one voice and stick to it. Do you have any similar experience? How did you solve the emotional urge to switch between voices?

    I disagree with the part of letting the publishers worry about it. From what I read and see online, I got the distinct impression that there is the expectation from agents and publishers alike that as a writer you know your target readership and your writing "fits" their expectations (when you pick a YA book you have different expectations of what you will find as compared to an adult novel) before you pitch a novel to agents and/or publishers. Of course, you can write the book you want and only later package it to them according to the categories the publishing world works with. I am just pointing out what is expected of authors to know and do in this day and age. Or am I getting this wrong?
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2020
  19. Richach

    Richach Contributor Contributor Contest Winner 2022

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    1. Plan as much as you can beforehand - Genre, P.O.V, Story Premise, Plot Points, Research + more.
    2. Write your entire first draft - Let nothing stop this! Nothing!!
    3. Only then scrutinise your work - Edit like hell.
    In theory, it is really that simple in principle. In reality, we are all battling the same demon - the internal editor that is screaming inside our heads saying "The voice is wrong! You must correct the spag! Your p.o.v is inconsistent! Indecision!!" You have to ignore that voice whilst you are writing and only use it at the end of the first draft. If you allow that voice to interrupt your writing then it will continually stop you until your writing grinds to a halt. So actually it isn't simple but your story is worth it isn't it?
     
  20. GraceLikePain

    GraceLikePain Senior Member

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    Voice...if you mean 1st vs 3rd, technically speaking you can get away with either in either demographic. Richach is right. Just do what makes you more comfortable and change it if you need to later.

    Well, I meant that your publisher can help you out with this sort of thing by knowing who to market to. While I imagine it helps to know, it's hard to see a publisher -- or now that I think about it, agent -- wouldn't help a person out some. Of course, there is the matter of picking the right publisher, so maybe ask the agent first.
     
  21. ruskaya

    ruskaya Contributor Contributor

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    at this point I need to ask because I am getting confused . . . aren't 1st & 3rd (& 2nd) POVs, and "voice" instead is more about your personal writing style and how you talk to the reader? To illustrate my point: I have heard a number of times people refer to voice as something that cannot be taught. Am I getting this wrong? Is there another definition?
     

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