1. Stammis

    Stammis Banned

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    Novel Crack the Code

    Discussion in 'Genre Discussions' started by Stammis, May 8, 2020.

    I don't know if this is just a waste of time, but, I don't like the way I write stories. It's too messy and I feel I'm wasting a lot of time. Obviously much comes from experience and I'm still learning, but I do think, even as a pantser, that is worthwhile to try to understand your process. Like, I want to sit down and write and know exactly what I'm doing. I want it to be like work, I really do, monotonous work where I sit down and do my part and then stop, not this running around like a headless chicken until I'm lucky crap.

    And I'm not talking about following some three act structure, or someones elses design, like archetypes and some such, I'm talking about cracking the code of my brain. And even if things don't go as planned, I should know what to do to remedy it instead of just shooting in the dark until something works.

    Maybe it's too much to ask, creative work is messy, but I still want to have some sort of structure to my style, be familiar with my process, you know. I need to analyse and remember how I solved mistakes, keeping a journal and lamenting my struggles until I know myself inside and out.

    I wonder, is that even possible?
     
  2. Not the Territory

    Not the Territory Contributor Contributor Contest Winner 2023

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    Yeah, some people function better when they have a documented system to follow. It depends on how much you think of the mind as a machine, which in a lot of ways it really is. My caution is that you probably won't ever fully understand yourself. You're a complicated human, changing all the time; the code is liquid! You'll probably come pretty close though.

    The largest pitfall would be "I can't write a book until I perfect this system." That's just procrastination. It's the same as "I can't write a book until I've finished world building" and "I can't write until my muse calls to me."

    Personally, I've just focused on building intuition through careful reading/listening of fiction that I like. My belief is that's the key to productivity. It seems like the most prolific writers also read quite a bit.
     
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  3. Xoic

    Xoic Prognosticator of Arcana Ridiculosum Contributor Blogerator

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    Some people talk about story structure (3-act or whatever) as if it's an imposed system that limits creativity. That's not what it is. It actually IS the code of the human mind, it's how the mind understands things. Story came long before science, and is the default way we make sense of our experiences.

    Yes, some approaches are over-structured or weird in various ways, but if you want to understand how story works (and how the human mind works) then study story structure in the traditional 3-act form. Learn how it works, and then you choose how much you adhere to it or veer from it. It's like learning to walk—you can crawl around and complain that you don't want to be limited to only using 2 feet and always alternating one leg after the other, but try to invent a better way to get around using the human body.

    Aristotle didn't create the structure of stories, he wasn't imposing anything on it, he discovered what works well and what doesn't, and shared his findings with the world. 3 acts is not an arbitrary division, it's beginning, middle and end. And once you learn what an act is, it's up to you to decide if you want 3 for a particular story, or only 2, or maybe just 1 for a flash fiction. Or however many you need. But to do that, it helps to understand what an act is and how it functions.
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2020
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  4. Cephus

    Cephus Contributor Contributor

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    Precisely. Story structure exists because that is how humans work. It isn't something that someone dreamed up one day, it came through observation of how human story telling works. There are a lot of different takes on it, but ultimately, it all describes the same process. It isn't a limiting factor, it is what people are going to expect to see if you want them to enjoy your work. You can move a little bit out of the lane here and there, but to toss it all away? You're just shooting yourself in the foot.
     
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  5. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Admin Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    although there is not just one option , some people... normally people who've written books about story structure (libby hawker i'm looking at you) seem to think that there is only one way a book can be written and all succesful work must follow xyz structure at all costs... (in chapter 18 it is time for 'betrayal by friend" in chapter 23 antagonist attacks etc) ... this is bollocks, books written to that sort of template will be templated and unoriginal
     
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  6. Xoic

    Xoic Prognosticator of Arcana Ridiculosum Contributor Blogerator

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    Yes, absolutely! There's a world of difference between story structure and a template. Be careful not to confuse the 2. It's like the difference between understanding engineering principles when you want to build something, or just following somebody's rules that only knows how to build one thing.
     
  7. Hammer

    Hammer Moderator Staff Supporter Contributor

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    There are just three simple rules for writing a successful novel!

    (sadly nobody knows what they are)


    W.Somerset Maugham, I believe
     
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  8. A.S.Ford

    A.S.Ford Active Member

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    In my experience, reading how-to-write books have always been good material to read for inspiration and motivation. Also, it's not for everyone, but doing a Creative Writing course really helped me learn more about myself and my writing and encouraged me to expand my comfort zone and experiences. As for knowing where you are going with a story, the only narrative planning I do is make a list of 3 to 6 (depending on word count) major things I know that I want or need to happen in the story (including the beginning and ending). I then just fill in the gaps with what events link those together. In my mind, I allow for those fill-in-the-gap events to change or evolve but make sure my main events stay the same. That way I know how the story progresses but also have some leeway instead a strict structure which, for me, can be damaging to my creativity. I hope this helps!
     
  9. Stammis

    Stammis Banned

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    I've cracked the code!

    (1) You write whatever comes out, ask questions and answer them until there are no more questions. (2) Then you expand the scenes and add dialogue. (3) Then you edit and correct the language.

    There's nothing more to it. The most important thing is that you do it in this order, especially the first part; can't go back and forth, which is what I've done.
     
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  10. Richach

    Richach Contributor Contributor Contest Winner 2022

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    I like the idea that words make sentences, sentences make paragraphs, paragraphs make chapters, chapters make books. Yeah fine, holes can be punched in that idea, but if you accept the principle and mix it with your own ideas of about formula and structure (or anti-structure for that matter). It makes the whole writing and editing process scaleable. You can literally zoom in or out. Look at the whole project, paragraph or a particular sentence.

    I think you are right @Stammis. After writing the draft. asking questions is really important to keep the story/project on track. Creativity can easily spiral out of control.

    Just to add one other thing about editing. I print out my first draft and use a pen to edit restructure etc. If I try and do it on screen it just gets really messy. Maybe that's just me.
     
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  11. Aled James Taylor

    Aled James Taylor Contributor Contributor

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    Even if you plan meticulously, you may not really know what you're doing until after you complete the first draft, and perhaps not even then. The creative process is chaotic, especially when you're creating something new. It may only be when you look back on what you've done that you realize what it's all about. Then you can expand on the significant aspects and cut the irrelevant clutter. Once your characters are developed you can re-write dialogue with more distinctive voices.

    I find the inclusion of many section titles and sub-titles helps me keep track of what I've done. The contents table, or 'navigation pane' as Word calls it, is most useful for giving an overview. I delete these titles before presenting the text to others.
     
  12. Senko

    Senko Member

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    I guess it largely depends on the amount of time you plan to spend on writing

    I´m not an expert in writing. But I think some comments apply to any profession or work.

    If you are planning to be a writer, full time, I guess you definitely need some kind of structure or general procedure.
    But, in that case, you will have plenty of time to try things that work for you.

    Sorry if that isn´t very helpful. But I do believe this: practice makes a master.
    I would also add: trying different things may also help with that.
     
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  13. Francis de Aguilar

    Francis de Aguilar Contributor Contributor

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    Maybe you do have a process but don’t recognise as such. Maybe the headless chicken mode is needed for creativity. I sort identify with this. What I found was I needed a way to contain it all, a way that allowed me write whatever came out, but then be able to review it, move it about and knock it into shape. So for me, composition is a random process, but editing and reviewing the outcome is a far more methodical endeavour. I must say that software was a part of this. I found Scrivener really helped.
     
  14. Tea@3

    Tea@3 Senior Member

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    well said!!!!!! love it.
     
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