1. Oldmanofthemountain

    Oldmanofthemountain Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2020
    Messages:
    167
    Likes Received:
    83

    What is up with bit writers proclaiming themselves to be more successful than they actually are?

    Discussion in 'Marketing' started by Oldmanofthemountain, Aug 13, 2020.

    Sorry for the admittedly overly lengthy and terrible title of this post, I couldn't think of anything else to label it.

    What is up with the trend of fairly obscure writers slapping labels like "best selling" and "award winning" on themselves? I've noticed quite a few bit-writers online bragging about their alleged "success" and "credentials", despite barely having little works under their name? And what few works that have published on websites like Goodreads and Amazon, have at best, a few dozen reviews. There are a few Quora and Reddit users that I've come across that inspired this question.

    One was one of the mods of the subreddit r/fantasywritters. She proclaimed herself to be a prolific and highly esteemed fantasy and horror writer. Yet, when I looked her up (I got her name from the subreddit she made about herself) online, I could barely find any information about her. On her amazon page, the only work listed under her name was a short story published under some omnibus book, organized by Orson Scott Card of all people.

    The other one was some user on Quora. He proclaimed himself be a science fiction writer (and wrote an allegedly popular memoir about his life experience under his former religion), that has received Hugo and Nebula awards for his works on his profile. When I looked him on Amazon and Goodreads, he only had about 5 or 6 books under his belt. Most of them only barely had more then one or two reviews and ratings. His most successful work (his aforementioned memoir) only had about 3 dozen reviews on both Goodreads and Amazon. To give him credit, the few reviews he got were almost all positive. Though most of them came from a very niche demographic (mostly fellow dissidents of his former religion).
     
    Cdn Writer likes this.
  2. Malisky

    Malisky Malkatorean Contributor

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2012
    Messages:
    2,606
    Likes Received:
    4,822
    Location:
    Recalculating...
    Perhaps desperate writers that hack their way into publicity? It's nothing new.

    I didn't know though that having 6 works under your belt makes one a not achieved writer. I mean, if an author writes just one book and wins an award this makes him an award winning author. No? I don't know about the fellow you speak of though. He might or mightn't have won a Nebula. If it's nowhere to be seen then most probably he hadn't.
     
  3. Oldmanofthemountain

    Oldmanofthemountain Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2020
    Messages:
    167
    Likes Received:
    83
    You got a point there. Though, I would still think his work would have more then a couple dozen user reviews on Amazon, Goodreads, and other seller websites, if that were the case.
     
    Cdn Writer and Malisky like this.
  4. Malisky

    Malisky Malkatorean Contributor

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2012
    Messages:
    2,606
    Likes Received:
    4,822
    Location:
    Recalculating...
    I think so too... I mean, three dozen of excellent reviews smell fishy. Might be friends and family. If I ever won an award, even a less important one than the Nebula I'd make sure to show up proof for my award everywhere. I'd throw a festival or something. :p
     
  5. Oldmanofthemountain

    Oldmanofthemountain Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2020
    Messages:
    167
    Likes Received:
    83
    I did more research on the dude, and yeah he did indeed receive a nebula award for some short story (titled Dance of the Yellow-Breasted Luddites), published under some short story anthology called “Vanishing Acts”.

    As seen under this Amazon link (https://www.amazon.com/Vanishing-Acts-Science-Fiction-Anthology/dp/0312869614), the whole anthology book has only received 5 user reviews on the page.

    The author in question also has a Wikipedia page, though it hasn’t been edited in over two years.
     
    Cdn Writer likes this.
  6. Malisky

    Malisky Malkatorean Contributor

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2012
    Messages:
    2,606
    Likes Received:
    4,822
    Location:
    Recalculating...
    Oh, I know nothing of short stories. I didn't even know that there where Nebula awards for them. Good for him though! I'm not sure since I don't usually read short ones or even watch short films, but I presume that they have a more constricted audience. In most cases at least, in order to watch a short film you have to attend a festival. In order to read a short story you have to buy a whole anthology of them. Perhaps that's why his achievement is not so widespread. It's a niche r market. But he didn't lie!
     
  7. Homer Potvin

    Homer Potvin A tombstone hand and a graveyard mind Staff Supporter Contributor

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2017
    Messages:
    12,136
    Likes Received:
    19,758
    Location:
    Rhode Island
    Do you mean people pretending to be something they're not? Using the anonymity of the internet to fudge their credentials? Bragging before a "roomful" of strangers they'll never meet? Never seen anyone do that before...
     
    Rzero, OurJud, J.T. Woody and 11 others like this.
  8. Cdn Writer

    Cdn Writer Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2019
    Messages:
    732
    Likes Received:
    625
    Location:
    Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada, North America
    Currently Reading::
    TRYING (!!!) to read Eric Flint's "Ring of Fire" series.......it's soooo many books!!!!!
    Could be a marketing ploy. "If writer A won an award, he must be good!" How many people check the claims? Really, if I'm running to get somewhere - the plane, the beach - and I want a book on the spur of the moment, I need something to "push" me in the direction of book C over book A and book B right? If it says "award winning" on the cover......that might be enough.
     
    Oldmanofthemountain likes this.
  9. jannert

    jannert Retired Mod Supporter Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2013
    Messages:
    17,674
    Likes Received:
    19,889
    Location:
    Scotland
    As far as awards go, it's a good idea to know something about the awards themselves. They'll tell you something about the level of writing to expect. The Man Booker Prize is a major one for literary fiction. The Spur Award is recognised as 'the one' to get, if you write Westerns. Nebula award for Sci-Fi, etc.

    If the award the author has 'won' is the best yearly effort from a small-town writers' group, you will know that it was judged the best of a very small bunch. That doesn't mean it's not good, but it will give you pause.
     
  10. Iain Aschendale

    Iain Aschendale Lying, dog-faced pony Marine Supporter Contributor

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2015
    Messages:
    18,851
    Likes Received:
    35,471
    Location:
    Face down in the dirt
    Currently Reading::
    Telemachus Sneezed
    I know you're talking about a general problem and using this author as an example, but in this case you've answered your own question: Dude won a Nebula. Doesn't matter if it was in Analog or an anthology or what have you, a Nebula is nothing to sneeze at. That and the Hugo are the "Big Two" of science fiction in much the same way an Oscar or a Golden Globe are Hollywood's Big Two. Maybe that's all he wrote that was any good and he's really hoping to drum up some more interest based on his one hit. Harper Lee*, Koushun Takami, John Kennedy Toole, and William Forrester only wrote one book apiece yet are considered quite notable. (*In light of the controversy around its publication, I'm not sure if I consider Go Set a Watchman to be a legitimate publication by Ms. Lee. It seems rather more likely that it was a cash-grab by relatives/agents/publishers).

    But all in all, it's like a resume. As long as you aren't actually lying, it's in your best interest to put forth all of your achievements in the best possible light. Matt Damon is always billed as "Academy Award Winner Matt Damon," which is true, but he's never won it for acting:

    upload_2020-8-13_19-28-32.png

    Award Winning Author.png

    Work with what you've got to bring in the sales.
     
  11. Naomasa298

    Naomasa298 HP: 10/190 Status: Confused Contributor

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2019
    Messages:
    5,345
    Likes Received:
    6,168
    Location:
    The White Rose county, UK
    I checked up on this author. He hasn't, as far as I can see, actually won either award but he's been nominated for one Hugo and two Nebulas. That's still a fine achievement, like being nominated for an Oscar.
     
  12. Iain Aschendale

    Iain Aschendale Lying, dog-faced pony Marine Supporter Contributor

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2015
    Messages:
    18,851
    Likes Received:
    35,471
    Location:
    Face down in the dirt
    Currently Reading::
    Telemachus Sneezed
    Absolutely. There is one person who won a Hugo, IIRC, for a short story. I bought a later novel of theirs, however, and... well, I went to the Hugo official site (or Wikipedia maybe :) ) to c0nfirm that they'd actually won as the novel was on a level that I associate with "Kindle self-pub, five star reviews by non-verified purchasers who share a surname with the author" works. I won't name them but it did teach me that "past performance is no guarantee of future results."
     
  13. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Admin Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2016
    Messages:
    22,566
    Likes Received:
    25,882
    Location:
    East devon/somerset border
    I'm an internationally award winning writer... that is I won the creative writing contest on my school trip to France when I was 13 :D

    Bestselling - tends to mean they've had the best seller tag on amazon, but it only means something if they were best selling in the paid all store rankings...there's a whole cottage industry of getting authors to be 'best selling' (for a fee) by placing their free book in an irrelevant very small category and then getting twenty or thirty shills to download it.. these are the parasites that say 'best selling book or your money back'
     
    Oldmanofthemountain and jannert like this.
  14. jannert

    jannert Retired Mod Supporter Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2013
    Messages:
    17,674
    Likes Received:
    19,889
    Location:
    Scotland
    Yeah. "Bestselling" is like the word "Natural" on a food or cosmetic product. Means squat, unless it's actually defined.
     
  15. ruskaya

    ruskaya Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2020
    Messages:
    571
    Likes Received:
    582
    Location:
    not a pro, yet very curious
    I noticed the same about schlapping fanciful tags on one's writing. There is this writer whose videos on writing and publishing I follow. Her videos are full of useful insights and give plenty of tips to begin orienting myself in the field, I am just so happy I found her. She has plenty of experience working in editing and publishing, but she just self-published her first book. Before it was out, she already claimed it was a bestseller. Maybe I don't get how it works, maybe that was based on pre-sales, but it looked suspicious to me... I think it is best to ask "bestseller where?"

    Anyway, I like her videos and learn from them so I will continue watching her.
     
    jannert and Oldmanofthemountain like this.
  16. Iain Aschendale

    Iain Aschendale Lying, dog-faced pony Marine Supporter Contributor

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2015
    Messages:
    18,851
    Likes Received:
    35,471
    Location:
    Face down in the dirt
    Currently Reading::
    Telemachus Sneezed
    I remember looking at Amazon's bestselling author list for Kindle Horror a couple years ago. Stephen King was #1, of course, but #2 was a lady who specialized in (from memory) "BBW were-lion erotic horror."

    Larger ladies who could change into lionesses and get their freak on, in other words. With a horror element.

    I won't judge, she had Dean Koontz beat, but I ain't gonna promote her here either :)
     
  17. Naomasa298

    Naomasa298 HP: 10/190 Status: Confused Contributor

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2019
    Messages:
    5,345
    Likes Received:
    6,168
    Location:
    The White Rose county, UK
    I shall bill myself as a Gold Award winner. That is, I have my gold swimming certificate from when I was 10.
     
  18. jannert

    jannert Retired Mod Supporter Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2013
    Messages:
    17,674
    Likes Received:
    19,889
    Location:
    Scotland
    I've won a few raffles in my day. Does that make me a Prize-Winning author?
     
  19. Steerpike

    Steerpike Felis amatus Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2010
    Messages:
    13,984
    Likes Received:
    8,557
    Location:
    California, US
    Being in one of Ellen Datlow’s anthologies is not a small thing, either. She was the Omni fiction and anthology editor for many years and her anthologies have won numerous World Fantasy Awards. She won this year’s Hugo Award for best editor, short form. She’s one of the best-known editors in SF/F.
     
  20. Oldmanofthemountain

    Oldmanofthemountain Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2020
    Messages:
    167
    Likes Received:
    83
    Never heard of her before, thanks for informing me.
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2020
    jannert and Iain Aschendale like this.
  21. Steve Rivers

    Steve Rivers Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2019
    Messages:
    867
    Likes Received:
    2,160
    Location:
    In a tent built out of facemasks
    I'm an international short story award winner! *points to the left*
    The forum is international and the gold graphic was awarded to me by @Komposten for a short story.

    After reading all of this, I'm putting that on the blurb of my book now. :D

    Someone please write "Steve writes better than God himself. I was left weeping at the sheer mastery he has over the words on the page."
    Then I can use that quote in the blurb, as well!
     
  22. Iain Aschendale

    Iain Aschendale Lying, dog-faced pony Marine Supporter Contributor

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2015
    Messages:
    18,851
    Likes Received:
    35,471
    Location:
    Face down in the dirt
    Currently Reading::
    Telemachus Sneezed
    "Steve writes better than Steve himself. I was left weeping over the words on the page."

    Close?
     
  23. Oldmanofthemountain

    Oldmanofthemountain Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2020
    Messages:
    167
    Likes Received:
    83
    Good response, and thanks for taking the time to address my posts. I really appreciate it.

    As a follow up question, with all of these achievements and acclaim, why does this author only have, at best, a few dozen ratings and reviews of their works on book retail stores, their Wikipedia page has such low traffic that it hasn’t been edited in a few years, etc.?
     
  24. Steerpike

    Steerpike Felis amatus Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2010
    Messages:
    13,984
    Likes Received:
    8,557
    Location:
    California, US
    What do you mean by "all these achievements and acclaim?" A single Nebula nomination?
     
    Oldmanofthemountain likes this.
  25. Oldmanofthemountain

    Oldmanofthemountain Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2020
    Messages:
    167
    Likes Received:
    83
    And being featured in Datlow’s anthologies as well
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice