Thoughts and feelings towards “Femme Fatales”?

As a character archetype in general, what are your thoughts and feelings towards the “Femme Fatale” (their male counterparts can be included in this discussion)?

 

Femme Fatale does not refer to that, though. It's a different archetype - from Wikipedia, first lines:

"A femme fatale (/ˌfæm fəˈtɑːl/ or /ˌfɛm fəˈtɑːl/; French: [fam fatal]), sometimes called a maneater[1] or vamp, is a stock character of a mysterious, beautiful, and seductive woman whose charms ensnare her lovers, often leading them into compromising, deadly traps."

 

I still feel like it is a dying character trope. Mostly because the idea of wielding "seductiveness" as a weapon is generally demeaning towards women. In mainstream media, femme fatale are usually present with the Mata-hari subtrope. That is, women who are built upon lies and who rely solely on their looks to advance their agenda and obtain their goals - eventually overcome by either the just hero of the story who resists the evil seduction or the betrayed/cheated female sidekick of the hero who is obviously jealous of the femme fatale's looks (and voices this jealousy three seconds after she witnesses the femme fatale's downfall).

I wished the trope instead changed to reflect more the femme fatale that we had in real life & our history. This would be both an expansion and a subversion of the trope; frankly, the most successful femme fatale of history were those /assumed/ to be built upon lies and relying solely on their looks but women who in fact were far more and made use of this perception to maintain courtiers at a fair distance. Queen Elizabeth was one such, Empress Catherine another and the Kievian Saint Olga too.

In short, "Femme fatale" are usually portrayed as women who conquer with their looks. I'd love to see women who conquer because people refuse to see further than their looks.

 

What are your thoughts on characters (who could be of any gender) that utilize sex as a tool of manipulation, but they have other tools at their deposal? For example, they will use seduction if it works on a target, but they also use bribery, whatever political clout they have, outright threats of violence, etc to accomplish their objectives. In other words, what are your feelings towards characters that have stereotypical “femme fatale” traits, but its far from their only characteristics.

 

It's okay I guess. They spice up the story. Not a huge fan, but not an anti-fan either. Are you thinking about writing one as a protagonist, antagonist, a mere cog?

 

I’m thinking about creating a character that is a very loose composite of Cersei Lannister from ASOIAF and Ms Coulter from His Dark Materials. Nothing is really set in stone yet, though she is probably going to be a high ranking official of some sort.

I imagine her being initially antagonistic, though she eventually forms a loose alliance with the heroes. Similar to Ms Coulter (and Darth Vader from Star Wars for that matter), she is trying to reclaim her long lost children. The woman also has a much younger (around ~10 to 14 years her junior) brother, who serves as a soldier. She has used her political influence to make him her bodyguard.

That is all I got, as my conception of her is so far very rough at best. Don’t even have a name thought up for her. Not even sure if I’m ever going to make her an actual character.

 

I don't know who Ms. Coulter is, because I've never watched His Dark Material, but Cersei kicks ass. All I can say is go for it! It'd be nice for a change for the femme fatale to make it in the end and get what she wishes without dying. Not that you must of course. It's your story. I'm saying this because I just realised that they usually end up losing and dead.

 

I don't watch or read things with femme fatales. They tend to be built on the worst aspects of women, and rarely if ever are interesting in any way. You've seen one femme fatale, you've seen 'em all. Nothing worth taking a second glance, or heck, even a first.

 

Second @Lazaares and @GraceLikePain in that you should be mindful of the misogyny associated with old tropes like this.
You mentioned using the character using other tools than sexuality to accomplish their goals, and that's certainly a good start, but you also consider how you portray their sexuality in the story. I would read up on some feminist media theory, particularly on the male gaze. You don't want to portray a female character taking sexual agency only for the presentation of your story to undermine that by objectifying them. The female character doesn't have to be passive within the story for the story to be written in a way that emphasises male pleasure.
If your 'femme-fatale' character dresses up, it doesn't need to be portrayed in a way that emphasises the attractiveness of it, and especially the story doesn't need linger on it with male characters clearly taking notice and the 'femme-fatale' character responding to that. In fact, you don't need to mention (in a book) or highlight (in a visual medium) the attractiveness of your character at all, certainly not multiple times or for every female character. The story should not focus on what female characters have to offer male characters (sexually and otherwise), but rather give the female characters space to do things for themselves and other non-male characters. Not every scene with the female character should be written to make sure they maintain a sense of attractiveness, it shouldn't be a defining characteristic that's always following them around. You could let them be a little average and casual in a scene or two, or looking messy and unkempt even, and this doesn't need to be made a big deal of either (it's probably better if it isn't).

EDIT: more thoughts
When a 'femme-fatale' type character is 'seducing' characters, you should also even here not focus too much on appearance. They should also be using ways of expressing sexuality and desire, such as language. You don't want them to be throwing themselves around like meat on a hook and call it 'empowering' just because they are getting something out of it.

 

Does Black Widow count as a femme fatale? Although she's less "lead them into deadly traps" and more "beat them to death with their own spine".

 

I love femme fatales they feel very old school like from film noirs and neo film noir's. One great thing about them is they are not out to prove they're as good as any man, that's not their thinking, they're utilizing their sexuality and preying on the weaknesses of men. I find them more realistic than this wave of kick-ass females that shows no signs of stopping.

 

Persephone from the Matrix films immediately comes to mind. She's such a classic, check-every-single-box portrayal that I would go so far as to call her character a lampshade of the archetype she represents. I agree with @peachalulu in my appreciation of this archetype. I agree that there's a deeper realism to the manner in which such a character plies the tools at hand.

 

I tend to like Femme Fatales. At least for a time, they were the best female villains on the market. Part of that is how Femme Fatales often bring with them moral ambiguity that other villainess tropes, like the evil sorceress, lack. One of the best examples of a Femme Fatale would be Catwoman who is equally likely to assist Batman as she is to be the villain.

My personal favorite Femme Fatale would be Ada Wong from the Resident Evil series (especially from the original RE 2). I like that while it's clear she cares about Leon she doesn't let her feelings jeopardize her goals and isn't above using his feelings for her to get ahead.

 

I agree.

I wouldn't call it a trope. I think it's an archetypal sort of character. A beautiful, seductive, mysterious woman who ensnares men is kind of a fundamental thing, and even if it's somewhat out of fashion currently, I see no reason that it won't be back. Morgan Le Fay is a great example of this archetype; the fact that she's an enchantress is fitting. There's something of the enchantress in all femme fatales, I think. At least I've always felt that in the things I've read.

 

Modern updates can be interesting.

Heather Holloway - Katie Holmes' character in Thank You For Smoking - immediately sprang to mind. She's smart and driven and is happy to use sex as one of a variety of tools to get what she wants.

 

They're a good sign that the protag has entered a world of danger. IMO, It's pretty satisfying when our hero finally demonstrates to the fatale (and the audience) that he hadn't been falling for the act. Or, even better, when she's beaten at her own game.

 

I don't give a crap about feminism. Especially when feminism tries to tell people how to write. My dislike of femme fatales has nothing to do with misogyny one way or another, I simply have no interest in reading about them. If other people want to read or write femme fatales, feminism has no right to tell people that they can't.

 

I'm just gonna leave this here...

 

Femme fatales are not a great trope. In a certain vein they are kind of empowering, and there is reality in the idea playing off personal interactions is often the main card women have in society. The problem is they are done a lot without the context of that second bit so it feels like it is reinforcing women's sexualisation rather than having a character exploit it subversively. As part of that, there are other similar things in exploiting the personal sphere women can do outside waving their flirty bits at men. The better femme fatales more actively show their intelligence and a more varied existence for them by using a broader array of interactions beyond exploiting basic lust.

For example in my historical novel my main character's wife is not a femme fatale, and she does not use seduction. But like many of the women in the setting, she plays in that sphere of behind-the-scenes. Because her influence is reliant, aside from the queen, on the men in her life she needs to play off those relationships (and only one of them is sexual). And because in the society the women are expected, when they do wield any kind of influence, to only do so on the behalf of the men in their lives, she needs to be seen not to be too political or individual. She plays the reverse card to femme fatale, of the demure housewife. And she's not some deceptive manipulator, she is mostly genuine. She just leans into things where needed and is aware of the need to be subtle and strategic.

So if you write a femme fatale, consider that there is more to the personal social sphere of strategy than sex and love and deception.