Tags:
  1. Stammis

    Stammis Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2015
    Messages:
    559
    Likes Received:
    145
    Location:
    Sweden

    Let go of the reins of your story

    Discussion in 'Plot Development' started by Stammis, Sep 24, 2020.

    Does anyone else have a problem with trying to take control your story?

    When you explore your story for the first time, you have an idea how it's gonna end, and rather than letting the characters act on themselves, I try to lead them to that ending. For me, that means I neglect character development because I don't need it (or the bare minimum of it) to move the story forward.

    Sometimes, I even try to make them hit those 'event points' that I've planned out and then I don't work hard enough on what happens in between.

    It's really strange, because I do let go sometimes and it's as if I'm both a planner and a pantser...
     
    jannert likes this.
  2. JLT

    JLT Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2016
    Messages:
    1,855
    Likes Received:
    2,233
    Um, I think the word you're looking for is "rein" and not "reign." (Jannert's Mod Hat on here ...you're correct, and I've changed the title—which only Mods can do, with our current software.) Think of the reins on a horse's bridle. When you slack them, you're giving the horse permission to go where it wants to. Don't fret about it. It's been a common mistake ever since people stopped riding horses.

    The trick is to create characters in such a way that the ending is inevitable. That's what makes so many of the Coen movies so delightful: there's a plot twist that seems unexpected, but then you see that it had to happen in just that way.

    Here's what Mark Twain had to say about your conundrum:

    "If you invent two or three people and turn them loose in your manuscript, something is bound to happen to them -- you can't help it; and then it will take you the rest of the book to get them out of the natural consequences of that occurrence, and so first thing you know, there's your book all finished up and never cost you an idea."

    His point is that if you make the characters as true-to-life as possible and then put them into situations, then they'll come to some end of their own.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 25, 2020
  3. Naomasa298

    Naomasa298 HP: 10/190 Status: Confused Contributor

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2019
    Messages:
    5,345
    Likes Received:
    6,168
    Location:
    The White Rose county, UK
    I'll probably be shot down for saying this, but I don't get the idea of not being control over your stories.

    It's not like these are actors who ad lib or go off doing things of their own when you don't want them to. They're fictional characters that have no will of their own. There are no events that you do not control. These characters can't take a crap unless you write it.

    If you're trying to incorporate too many ideas into the story and then finding you have no idea how to reconcile them all, that's directionless writing. You lost sight of the goal you set when you started the story. Have more discipline and before you incorporate an idea, have a good inkling of how it fits into the overall story. If it doesn't fit - bin it, and save it for another novel.
     
    Homer Potvin and Mckk like this.
  4. deadrats

    deadrats Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2016
    Messages:
    6,086
    Likes Received:
    7,419
    @Stammis -- I understand what you're saying. I try to make something unexpected happen every hound words or so. I like to put myself in situations I have no idea how to get out of and then see what my characters come up with. Of course, we're writing the story and in control, but I do know the feeling and it can be a fun ride. You're sort of allowing yourself to write anything because you can always blame it on those characters getting out of control. ;)
     
    jannert likes this.
  5. Maggie May

    Maggie May Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2018
    Messages:
    162
    Likes Received:
    128
    Oh I get it. If I don't have some kind of control I write too much on stuff that isn't part of the story. Too much detail sometimes. The story itself can get lost.
     
    jannert likes this.
  6. jannert

    jannert Retired Mod Supporter Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2013
    Messages:
    17,674
    Likes Received:
    19,889
    Location:
    Scotland
    I don't believe a writer is always correct at the planning stage, or that any tendency to deviate from that plan is a mistake. In fact, deviations can often lead you to better characters, a better plot, or a deeper theme, etc.

    I wouldn't go hareing off after every new idea, to the extent the whole thing falls apart and doesn't get finished. But I wouldn't stick yourself with the original outline plan either. If it begins to feel inadequate, allow it to evolve along with your characters.

    YOU made that original plan. It's not carved in marble by an angel's hand. Unless you're convinced you're always right first time, you might want to loosen the reins a bit. Your evolving ideas might be even better.

    Loosen the reins, but don't drop them. :)
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2020
    deadrats likes this.
  7. Fervidor

    Fervidor Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2020
    Messages:
    448
    Likes Received:
    441
    Location:
    Sweden
    Man, I can't discovery write. I've tried, but my brain just does all the outlining automatically.

    When you put it like that, it kinda sounds like your stories aren't really about the characters.

    See, after coming up with the basic premise, I start with deciding on who my characters are - what they want to achieve, what is important to them, what personal problems they need to overcome. The plot then sorta forms itself out of all that. Sure, they may have some sort of objective that isn't relevant to them on a personal level: Finding a McGuffin, defeating a villain, solving a mystery, saving the world, etc.

    But that stuff is mostly an excuse, a way for me to to enable that sweet, sweet character development. By going through those adventures and ordeals, the characters learn something about themselves and come out better in the end, and that's what really matters. For me, those "event points" are practically always defined by how they affect the characters.
     
  8. Thom

    Thom Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2009
    Messages:
    162
    Likes Received:
    63
    Sometimes the story takes you places you did not intend. It's up to the author to decide if they want to go onto that new course, or stick to what was planned. Sometimes, it can be for the better, such as drama/strife and a growth moment that had not been considered.
    My MC has an ethereal counterpart, a portion of herself that was separated at the beginning of the story, and who has directed her in a number of ways. The plan was to have them brought back together again near the end.
    But at the end battle of the second book, I realized that she died! I hadn't planned that, it just happened!
    Now, I could go back and say she was simply wounded, but I actually like what this will put the MC through. It also opens up avenues of emotional turmoil that weren't there before.
    So, sometimes, it may be a good thing that even the author is not in complete control of the story.
     
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2020
  9. Cave Troll

    Cave Troll It's Coffee O'clock everywhere. Contributor

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2015
    Messages:
    17,922
    Likes Received:
    27,173
    Location:
    Where cushions are comfy, and straps hold firm.
    I always just let the story go and do what it wants. Feels a bit more organic
    than trying to plot every fleeting moment and detail out. Sometimes it works
    out, and sometimes it's a complete misadventure. But they can't all be great.
     
    deadrats likes this.
  10. Stammis

    Stammis Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2015
    Messages:
    559
    Likes Received:
    145
    Location:
    Sweden
    Yeah, I think your right. I'm so confused at the moment I don't really know what to do.

    Would anyone be interested in reading the story I'm having trouble with? It's about 10 000 words long, at least it's what I'm wiling to share right now. Not looking for an in depth analysis, more like a a general opinion. Or whatever you feel like, beggars can't be choosers.
     
  11. cosmic lights

    cosmic lights Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2018
    Messages:
    863
    Likes Received:
    857
    Location:
    Norwich, UK
    I asked this question to someone once, she was my unofficial writing mentor and she said to me: "The ending of your story must feel surprising yet inevitable and who the characters are and the theme that runs with them is what Governs this." Her example was a TV show where the main character had a history of always losing whatever she got that made her happy. She was a tragic heroine and the ending should have been obvious, she was going to lose. But it wasn't written correctly so the audience thought, after years of failure in her pursuit for happiness, we were finally going to see her win. That failure to set the audience up came with them creating a feeling of doom for that character but forcing her in the direction they thought she should go in. It's not so bad with novels because you have the time to correct problems. You can look at the finish product and make changes, it's harder to do that on a TV show that runs for years.

    This question is also a matter of opinion. And I think there's a happy medium of not forcing the story down the road you think it should take against the one that naturally develops and letting the characters just run wild; because then you can end up with no real plot, forward movement and just a general mess. I think there needs to be some control from the writer. You should only allow the character to dictate the story's direction to a level, then you need to rein it back in.
     
    jannert likes this.
  12. Thom

    Thom Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2009
    Messages:
    162
    Likes Received:
    63
    We are gods of our creations, but we should give them a small measure of free will.
     
    deadrats and jannert like this.
  13. Cephus

    Cephus Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2014
    Messages:
    850
    Likes Received:
    953
    Only so far as they get where we need them to go in order to make a workable story. If what you wind up with in the end is an unreadable mess, it's a failure.
     
    deadrats and Thom like this.
  14. Thom

    Thom Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2009
    Messages:
    162
    Likes Received:
    63
    That's why it is only in 'small' measures.;)
     
    deadrats and Cephus like this.
  15. Homer Potvin

    Homer Potvin A tombstone hand and a graveyard mind Staff Supporter Contributor

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2017
    Messages:
    12,136
    Likes Received:
    19,758
    Location:
    Rhode Island
    I'm with you. Characters are puppets to be used, abused and dispensed as needed.
     
    Cephus and Naomasa298 like this.
  16. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Admin Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2016
    Messages:
    22,566
    Likes Received:
    25,882
    Location:
    East devon/somerset border
    yeah me three... its usually just short hand for making it up as you go rather than plotting (I never plot anyway) but we do periodically bump into members who honestly believe their characters have autonomous life
     
    Naomasa298 likes this.
  17. Cephus

    Cephus Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2014
    Messages:
    850
    Likes Received:
    953
    Agreed. Authors who say they can't make their characters do what they want have problems. Characters are an invention of your mind. They do what you want them to do because they don't exist without you. Now you might get the internal feeling that you're violating their conception and that's fine, but if your characters actually fight you in your head, you might want to seek some professional help.
     
    Naomasa298 likes this.
  18. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Admin Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2016
    Messages:
    22,566
    Likes Received:
    25,882
    Location:
    East devon/somerset border
    what that generally means is that it doesn't feel right on a sub concious level for a character to do what the plot developed by the conscious requires.. i suspect every writer who plots (and most of those who don't since we mostly have at least an idea where we're going) has experienced that.

    . now wait a minute Tolkein, Samwise wouldn't betray frodo for sex... what are you thinking? .... you know what subconcious you're right i'll cut the scene with the two pleasure dwarves
     
    Naomasa298 likes this.
  19. Homer Potvin

    Homer Potvin A tombstone hand and a graveyard mind Staff Supporter Contributor

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2017
    Messages:
    12,136
    Likes Received:
    19,758
    Location:
    Rhode Island
    LoTR Unabridged volume in stores Winter 2020!
     
  20. Fervidor

    Fervidor Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2020
    Messages:
    448
    Likes Received:
    441
    Location:
    Sweden
    That is my preferred type of critique to give, and it's easier to give advice when you know what you're dealing with. So, wouldn't be against reading it. It's just that I'm sorta unreliable when it comes to getting back to people, and have a tendency to vanish for extended periods. Otherwise, sure, send me a link or something.
     
  21. Fervidor

    Fervidor Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2020
    Messages:
    448
    Likes Received:
    441
    Location:
    Sweden
    While I do tend to think of characters as mostly storytelling tools, in practice I sorta get it when discovery writers say their characters act on their own.

    It's just that I pretty much know what my characters will decide to do ahead of time - that's all part of The Plan. I wouldn't say I control them as much as I foresee their actions, if that makes sense.

    This is actually part of the reason why it's so damn difficult for my to change anything once I'm set the story I want to tell: My characters tend to be so entwined with the plot that they basically can't make decisions other than those that forward the narrative in the direction I originally envisioned when I mentally designed them.

    So, like, the story is pretty much defined by the characters, but also I created those characters in order to tell that specific story to begin with. The whole process is like this sort of weird ouroborus loop that's still a bit mysterious to me.
     
  22. Cephus

    Cephus Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2014
    Messages:
    850
    Likes Received:
    953
    I don't know, I've seen a lot of amateur writers who seem to think that their characters are actually writing the story and they wind up with a mess at the end because they can't dare contradict their characters.
     
    deadrats likes this.
  23. Naomasa298

    Naomasa298 HP: 10/190 Status: Confused Contributor

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2019
    Messages:
    5,345
    Likes Received:
    6,168
    Location:
    The White Rose county, UK
    Perhaps that's a result of writing by inspiration alone - all the inspiration pours out in a jumbled mess. When the next brilliant idea hits, it goes down on paper without thought as to what implication it has to the story.
     
  24. Cephus

    Cephus Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2014
    Messages:
    850
    Likes Received:
    953
    I do tend to see that in pantsers, so your guess is as good as mine.
     
  25. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Admin Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2016
    Messages:
    22,566
    Likes Received:
    25,882
    Location:
    East devon/somerset border
    I pants but I've never had that problem... i think it tends to happen in writers looking for an excuse rather than plotters or pantsers per se... admittedly when i was much newer to the craft than i am now i once wrote 150k book which became an 85k on the self edit... but i havent don't that for a long time...
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice