Defending the use of cliches... that's a new one for me coming from a fellow writer. I'm not sure why you're mocking me for calling myself a professional. I'm saying when I started selling fiction I realized that cliches don't really get you far. I do avoid them because that's what the majority of professional writers do as well. Writers learn to write better. For me, that meant no cliches language ever. I don't think it's okay to tell someone they are wrong for not using cliches. That's just a little ridiculous. I'm not calling anyone here wrong. I stated my opinion and how and why that changed. But if it's raining cats and dogs where you are, I advise you take shelter and chill.
I stated my case. And what do you mean: "I don't think it's okay to tell someone they are wrong for not using cliches." when you yourself are stating it's wrong to use them. We have different opinions. I disagree with yours for the reasons stated. And that's ok.
She means using clichés and telling people to use clichés are unambiguously wrong actions. She does not mean that telling people what to do is wrong. There is a difference between your own personal artistic sentiment--what you can self publish as art, and what a professional tells you is tasteful in paid, traditional publishing circles. Hell, I know a lot of self-publishing people who make money, and they are very clear on the dos and don'ts of self-publishing. But they are trying to get paid. If the only rule is that you follow your own artistic sentiment, then there is nothing to talk about. Deadrats is always talking about paid publication. A lot of dialog clichés get there without the writers realizing it. But once a line of dialog crosses over, it kinda sucks.
You don't know anything about my professional credentials. Besides, I didn't say it was wrong to not use clichés, I said it was wrong to avoid them blindly, when a good writer knows how and when to effectively use cliché's to their benefit, most notably to develop characters in dialogue. The idea that they can never be used effectively and/or creatively and should always be avoided is absurd. And what's the point of the videos, to prove cliché's exist?
I don't see either of these very often. Also, cerulean is a very specific shade of blue, so I don't think it qualifies as a cliche. There's no other word for that color.
Huh, lots of locals use that phrase where I'm from. Having not heard that elsewhere, I thought that was just us...
These are called idioms, I believe. They're sorta defined by being commonly used figurative sayings, so avoiding them simply because they're common doesn't really make sense. More like, maybe be a bit selective about using them and consider the context. I absolutely wouldn't object to them being used in dialogue, and in narration I suppose it depends on the tone of the narrator. Does anyone still use that one? It's basically the archetypal cliché, but I don't think it's actually been one for like a hundred years or something because everyone knows you're not supposed to use it. Which is, you know, ironic. Sometimes it's used as a tongue-in-cheek joke, but I don't think I've ever seen a serious attempt.
Stories where the major twist in the middle was that the protagonist was unknowingly or blindly working for the bad guys all along, then switching sides. The protagonist predictably and heroically sacrificing their life to save another character's life, or kill the Big Bad.
I guess no one ever told Lee Child .. Jack Reacher is a walking cliche... the lone gunman who rides into town, kills the bad guys, saves the girl, and then rides out of town is a complete cliche going all the way back to the western movies of the 40s and 50s, and the japanese samurai tales they were based on before that. (not to mention the square jaw, 50 inch chest, ex special forces, man who'll do what's 'rightt (tm) regardless of the cost.) Likewise Ian Rankin... Rebus is a total cliche, the hard bitten cop with a disrespect for authority and drink problem who gets the bad guys despite the interference of his superiors John Scalzi - Old Man's war has so many Sci Fi Cliches in it that Scalzi had to write a back note about his 'homage' to starship troopers (and assorted other classics) Bridget Jones Diary... you could practical play cliche bingo Its the same in practically every genre... its not at all true to say that only self published authors use cliches... massive multi milion selling trad authors do it all the time, because cliche's sell
I think a trope is any identifiable story element you could have seen before. An inciting incident is a trope. A story coming to a climax is a trope. A mail carrier knocking on the door and delivering a call to action is a trope. A farm boy going on an adventure is a trope. A hyper competent and seductive, gun-slinging, stunt-driving, twelve-language-speaking sidekick is a trope. A stupid, comic relief sidekick that always needs saving is a trope. All clichés are also tropes. Clichés are, or were at one time, common. Unlike tropes, clichés carry unwanted emotional baggage, fail to carry the correct emotional meaning, or elicit a negative feeling when they are pointed out. For example, starting a story with the weather is cliché, because it reminds some readers of other stories that started with the weather, and that reminder sparks the feeling that the writer doesn't know other ways to start a story, so the writer must be bad--using up the reader's good will. https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DiscreditedTrope
War in Sci-fi. Every 50 Shades knockoff. All the invincible characters, that aren't technically invincible, but only accrue the damage of a paper cut, that would kill off or seriously maim a secondary/tertiary character. Fet Erotica that starts and stops at window dressing, with no technical elements beyond the human mechanics (I.E. : wearing a costume/uniform and then only doing the horizontal mambo.) Every character (potentially outside of the antagonist) is always attractive for some strange reason, regardless of genre. Lasers in Sci-fi. That is a small list of the ones I can think of, off the top of me noggin. And yes I know some are more recent, but gaining traction.
Some series have their own built-in cliches (or tropes, if you will). I was watching Jurassic World: Fallen Kingdom last night and counted all the things that all five movies in the series have in common. You could almost hear the screenwriters going: "OK. We've got: bad guy getting eaten by dinosaur... check. Other random guy getting eaten by dinosaur ... check. Kid in jeopardy ... check. Kid saving the day somehow... check. Menacing dinosaur suddenly getting eaten/attacked by another (usually bigger) dinosaur, saving the day somehow ... check. Some main character musing on how technology can turn bad, filling lull in action scenes ... check."
I can't agree with that. A cloaked figure riding a horse is very captivating. The secret here is: don't drag the mystery too long.
