Do these Dragonriders make sense?

In a project of mine, dragons are essentially huge animals. They take a long time to grow and mature, but they can be tamed by some people. The society is comparable to Rome, and is one of many empires to use dragons.

The percentage of people who can ride a dragon is somewhere in the region of one in a thousand, although the Imperial Family has a much higher rate. But, seeing as dragons are more numerous than members of the Imperial Family, regular calls for dragon riders are made. The people dumb or brave enough to even try get to stand by the sides as hundreds of cattle, horses and sheep are bundled into deep and broad pits. These pits are right by the dragon’s lairs. A horn is blown, which signals to the untamed dragons that food is available, and they descend to feed.

After the dragonfire settles, and the dragons land, the tamers are instructed to advance and attempt to cow a dragon by using their name, as well as a whip. Most of the people will be injured or killed, and it may take days or weeks to find a rider. Once a rider is found, they get a saddle and are able to ride the dragon.

Does this sound reasonable, given the fact that it’s random chance that determines who can ride?
Do you have any suggestions or advice?

 

It makes sense to me. It sounds like their taming process is unnecessary and causes needless death; cultures sometimes have violent practices like that.

 

To be fair, there’s no way of telling who can ride a dragon until you’re facing it, and that’s a dangerous place to be in.

 

Sorry, I originally thought you meant being a dragon rider was something that was random chance as in... only some people are born with the ability. I reread and now understand that it's still up to the individual to overpower the dragon?

Either way my sentiment stands

 

It’s sorta ambiguous as to why, exactly some people can tame a dragon where others get eaten alive. It’s definitely somewhat random though, as some pretty brave guys get horribly maimed trying to tame the beast.

 

You better know the reason - saying it's ambiguous won't cut it. You'll get eaten alive by beta readers and probably, stands to reason to think rejected by agents who ultimately must sell to publishers, who sell to readers. Readers will ask why, and if you don't have a good answer for them, it will bug them and it will weaken the integrity of the whole story because certain points of suspense would be weak or impossible to establish, based on not having an answer to this core point of your premise.

 

Tolkien never explained his magic, and it worked out fine.

The reason some people can tame dragons isn’t important- the important thing is that people can.

 

Tolkien absolutely did explain his magic. The Silmarillion is literally an entire book explaining details that aren't really needed to be explained. HOWEVER, this person's statement was not that you explain it in the text, only that you know the reason in and of itself. Plot convenience is fine, the world should serve the story after all

However, my take on this is that I'm not that fond of it. The fact it has a higher rate in certain family implies that it's genetic, and if dragons are supposed to be purely animalistic, it somewhat falls apart. Imagine a world where only one in a thousand people could tame a dog, but certain families have a higher chance. Beyond that, this just seems like a prebuilt "chosen one" mechanism.

 

If you don't even know why your characters can tame dragons, then how do you know when or if someone else can tame one? How should the reader be able to predict, and how would they be pleasantly surprised or taken aback when someone comes to taming a dragon? Reader's response would be, "There's no reason to it. It's there because the author is doing some hand-waving and need it to progress the plot. Boring." Where's the suspense then when the reader doesn't understand when a character may or may not be limited when faced with a dragon?

Readers will ask. Trust me because I hate world-building and I used to write high fantasy, so do you know how many times I've answered a question of "Why" with exactly the same answer you've given me now? And how often that has not been enough? There's a reason I'm slowly moving away from high fantasy. If you don't want to be bothered with technical details like this that your world hangs on - and your world does hang on why anyone can tame dragons at all - then honestly, save yourself the heartache and stop writing high fantasy.

Comparing yourself with the guy who changed the entire landscape of Western fantasy as a whole genre is, perhaps, a tad ambitious. And Middle Earth is so frigging detailed that even if there's one detail missing, people would be prone to forgiving it. If you can legit, genuinely compare your world with the richness of Middle Earth, then I salute you - but chances are, your world probably pales in comparison, if we're gonna start comparing to Tolkien.

Your answer shows a lack of willingness to even answer the question - which, in my experience, actually means it's way more important than you're letting on, you know this, and you also know if you attach a reason to it, parts of your story as you currently have it will probably fall apart - precisely because it has not been built with a consistent, coherent in-world logic to begin with. These inconsistencies will spell the end of your entire novel.

If the author knows the answer, you bet your bottom dollar that's gonna show in the writing even if you never directly answer the question. And if the author doesn't, that usually shows.

Answer it: why can some people tame dragons and others not? You must know the answer even if it never features in the book. Can answering this question hurt your book? No, it can only strengthen it. Can not answering it hurt your book? You bet it can, and it will. Your book, your call, it's not my baby. But I had been on a meandering road of working on a high fantasy for TWELVE YEARS and right till the end, world inconsistency haunted my book. So much broke down because so much didn't make sense and I had developed and written too much of it before I thought to try and answer any basic questions at all (such as, why was my villain waging a war? Who knows, it only matters that there is a war! Remember how I said your answer reminds me of my own responses?)

Just don't do this to yourself when you can still fix it early.

 

The fundamental premise I like, where anyone in society has the opportunity to rise above their pedigree, if only they can tame the dragon.

The crucible you described seems... messy, chaotic... I guess it depends on how well it’s written. I would consider alternative crucibles

I wonder if 1/1000 is as prestigious as you want it to be. The Roman Empire peaked at 65 million people. So that would mean 65,000 active dragon riders in an empire that big.

 

If I can wade into the “explanation” part of the discussion.

I want to point out there’s a difference between something that can’t be explained, and something that can’t be predicted with any sort of confidence.

It seems to me your goal is that among the hopeful dragon riders, it is difficult to predict who will be victorious.

So you perhaps you can offer an explanation without sabotaging the unpredictability. On silly example may be that there is a spiritual connection between dragon and rider from past lives(reincarnation). Wholly explicable, wholly unpredictable.

I think if you have passion for the project, pursue it!

 

We do not get a detailed explanation of magic in Tolkien’s world. We know a few facts, but it’s not as detailed as, say, DnD. ASOIAF is the same way. The ability isn’t exactly genetic, it’s like the ability to wiggle your ears.

Dragons might not be purely animalistic. There’s theories in-universe that they were made rather than naturally evolving, seeing as they’re such perfect war animals. And it’s a bit of a chosen one thing, but it’s also not. Dragons are rare weapons, and their riders are ultimately expendable when it comes down to the wire.

I wasn’t saying my world is as good as Tolkien’s’, far from it. What I meant was that if even great authors do not explain their magic, it should be acceptable for me to do the same. Magic, in this world, is incredibly rare to the point of nonexistence. There’s about three ‘magic’ elements: Dragons, dragon tamers, and a girl who claims to be a witch.

The point is that it’s not a common trait. Many men and women who have the ability never find out, and it’s deliberate that we never ‘know’ for certain. There’s hints, clues, and things that imply why dragons can be tamed only by a few, but they’re not overly important in the long run.

You want an answer? Have the same one the people in-universe have: It’s a divine gift of the Goddess.

What would you recommend for crucibles? I’d be genuinely happy to hear what you thought.

There are a lot of people who have the potential, but think of it: not everyone will face a dragon. Lots of those guys and gals will be happy to just live their lives without ever trying to tame the beast. Those people don’t need to prove themselves, they’d rather not risk life and limb. Not to mention that dragons are still pretty rare, so even if all of them tried most of them would go home disappointed.

 

You have a good point. I’m still uncertain what would be good without being too silly, so to speak.

 

I think you misunderstood... I was suggesting 1/1000 may be too many, not too few. Maybe 1/5000? 1/10,000?

As far as crucibles are concerned, how does this one sound?

Every year/decade in the spring/summer/fall/winter, during/before/after mating season, adolescent dragons begin attempting their first flight. Like taming a mustang, who only get harder the older they get, this is the only time to tame a dragon. Adventurers (selected from tournament winners??) go out into the wilderness, battling the elements, nature, and each other in order to find a dragon to tame.

you can even add a King Arthur element to it.

please excuse typos, I’m on the phone.

-MC

 

It sounds to me like dragon taming isn't a skill, but a talent, and nobody knows why some people have talent and some don't, or have never cultivated it.

 

@Viserion - no need to get aggressive with your tone. It's your book. Fix it or don't, it's no skin off my nose. And no, if the genius of fantasy writing does something, it absolutely does not mean you can. By virtue of being Tolkien, whatever mistakes he had made would be overlooked, excused, forgiven, brand new theories freshly created for any inconsistencies and taken as probable, because given the quality of the rest of his work, it seems likely that things were created or left out intentionally. Readers will not necessarily give you the same license.

But if it's a divine gift of the Goddess, then you do know why. That's all I was ever talking about to begin with. But then the reader will ask: Why did the Goddess choose some people and not others? What gets one chosen? And if dragon taming is a magical ability only those chosen by the Goddess has, why would a bunch of people volunteer to try and tame dragons knowing it most probably means certain death? Unless you're certain you'd been chosen, you know also for certain you'd die in the attempt.

It doesn't seem plausible anyone would volunteer to tame deadly dragons unless someone believed himself to be chosen.

You asked if it makes sense. I'm saying: No. 'Tis one opinion, feel free to ignore it.

 

Possibly a bad comparison, but it is never explained (in the films at any rate) why the Force is strong in some people and not in others.

 

I'm fairly certain the ability to wriggle your ears is genetic though. Why not just call the ability to ride dragons genetic? I wouldn't expect a society to be knowledgeable about genealogy anyway... so if the people are attributing this to their goddess, that would make sense to me.

My initial confusion with reading the OP was when I tried to visualize a dragon being tamed from the perspective of a character that has this ability... what happens? Does the dragon attempt to kill them regardless, so Character will only know if they are blessed with the ability by fighting to saddle the dragon. Does the dragon sense Character is different and, among the chaos, calm down enough to let them hop on?

 

The point is, it’s not as if the reasons need to be explained.

And why would anyone try? Simple. The rewards are immense.

Exactly.

Here’s a short story I posted that should show what the average dragon taming looks like.

the-dragontamer-989-words.167579

 

The story still doesn't answer my question. It seems like it is about to, but it ends before Aren gets to the actual taming... though I suppose maybe you are referring about the moment with Shade? That is as ambiguous as you mention; if the story later mentions that the boy ended up taming Shade, then I would assume the dragon riding ability is inherent (if I was never told otherwise). If you're okay with the reader possibly making this assumption then I think you should continue writing without worrying that it's silly.

 

You got the right idea from the text.

The important things to remember are this: The boy who gets killed by Shade did everything right. He shouted the dragon’s name, got its attention, used the whip to show he’s the boss... and still got smashed in two.

The next thing to remember: The dragons don’t like presumption. The guy who tried to ride Smoke right away got horribly burned, and the dragon went into a rage. If you want a chance, you need to prove yourself to the beast. In the paraphrased words of G.R.R. Martin, dragons are not horses, and do not take any rider who throws a saddle on them.