1. Myalterego

    Myalterego Member

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    Grammar Languages ??

    Discussion in 'Word Mechanics' started by Myalterego, Dec 3, 2020.

    My current novel involves an English speaking protagonist and a former Foreign Legionnaire, who is working in Brazil.
    how do others approach the use of foreign language within a novel written in English. As it is relevant to the story line, language first then the English translation. Would you italicize the translation, or leave the reader to assume what the dialog was or a glossary at the end
    For example

    From what little Portuguese he could understand, she was an investigator for the "Recita Federal the Secretaria Especial da Receita Federal do Brasil" (The Special Department of Federal Revenue of Brazil). A special agent for the Brazilian tax man

    From what little he could understand, she was an investigator for the Recita Federal the Secretaria Especial da Receita Federal do Brasil . A special agent for the Brazilian tax man.

    From what little he could understand, she was an investigator for the Recita Federal the Secretaria Especial da Receita Federal do Brasil (--1--) . A special agent for the Brazilian tax man.

    It goes to his character and identity for the French
    the Portuguese place and people are relevant to the story

    Opinions, please, S'il vous plaît, por favor

    English only answers

    Regards Steve
     
  2. Lifeline

    Lifeline South. Supporter Contributor

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    I'm on the fence regarding the usefulness of having lots of foreign words in an otherwise english written novel. I guess it depends on the frequency of use, and what you need the foreign words for. If it's designations (like in your example),

    I'd like this the best, though I'd be careful about using round brackets. They always jerk me out of the story, just a little. I'd rather incorporate the english translation into the text where possible (though for your example it's probably best because the name of the department is long), i.e. for short text

    I know I bungled your translation (I don't speak Portuguese). I only wanted to point out the length I could incorporate without trouble into text without using round brackets.

    On the other hand, if you stay consistent in their use, they could be a feature of your voice, giving it personality.
     
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  3. Xoic

    Xoic Prognosticator of Arcana Ridiculosum Contributor Blogerator

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    What's throwing me is what seems to be repetition. First you say Recita Federal, then I assume you're giving the full title—the Secretaria Especial da Receita Federal do Brasil. It makes it feel too long and too repetitious. I guess it's like saying "She was the Special Secretary—the Special Secretary of the Federal Revenue of Brazil"? I would try to re-word it and take out the repetition. Those lengthy quotes in Portuguese make me want to just skip ahead until it's English again. I could handle it if it was a few less words.

    In fact I would consider stripping it down to something like "She was the Secretaria Especial—the special secretary of Brazil's revenue service, known as the Receita Federal do Brasil. Even that feels a bit long though. Honestly I think I'd skip the second part, or put in in a separate sentence. It begins to feel like a language lesson rather than a story. If you'd just take off the do Brasil part it would be better.
     
  4. Malum

    Malum Offline

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    The frequent foreign dialogue in Demons really annoyed me. It would have annoyed me more if it was spoon-fed to me.
     
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  5. Naomasa298

    Naomasa298 HP: 10/190 Status: Confused Contributor

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    I would simply put "From what little Portuguese he could understand, she was an investigator for the Special Department of Federal Revenue".

    The readers will get that she is speaking to him in Portuguese and that he doesn't fully comprehend (because you just told them).
     
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  6. Lazaares

    Lazaares Contributor Contributor

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    Whenever a written English piece features foreign languages it reminds me of this:



    Nevertheless; I think you gotta swing the full way, or not swing at all. Half-English dialogue is as off-putting to me as written accents.
     
  7. Naomasa298

    Naomasa298 HP: 10/190 Status: Confused Contributor

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    "Konnichiwa," said Ken. "You look genki, desu."
    "Are you a moron?" replied Ryu, as he hit Ken in the face with a shoryuken.
     
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  8. More

    More Active Member

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    I can't actuly answer your question . But, language and how best to write it is a problem for all writers . I know there have been a number of very good books written in an unusual version of English . The numbers of reads is often low , becous readers don't want to struggle to understand what is on the page . You would be better off convincing your readers that all Brazilians spoke perfect English and all signs are in English , than having translations of Portuguese. If the language is essential, than I would write it in English , but use little tags, pointing out it was said in Portuguese. You could also use the fact that Brazilians find European Portuguese a bit dated with odd pronunciations.
     
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  9. Seven Crowns

    Seven Crowns Moderator Staff Supporter Contributor Contest Winner 2022

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    I guess it depends on the audience's expectations. There's some books where lots of foreign words are accepted, while in others they're hated.

    I kind of like them. I like learning new things and don't mind looking up a word or phrase. It does mess with the pacing though. I was reading "Zero Saints" by Gabino Iglesias, and it probably set the record for the most Spanish mixed in an English text. I swear 10% of the book was Spanish, sometimes entire pages. My kindle just rolls right through that though. It's easy to translate. I learned lots of great swears! And it's fun when you get to a line that you can figure out yourself. Anyway, that title pushes it to an extreme.

    That book calls itself "barrio noir." They're not kidding. It's exactly that. Kind of funny, two foreign words describe its genre perfectly.
     
  10. Rosacrvx

    Rosacrvx Contributor Contributor

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    If you really want to keep the Portuguese, it's called:

    Secretaria Especial da Receita Federal do Brasil

    (everything else you have doesn't make sense)

    Unless you mean Secretária Especial [special agent] da Receita Federal do Brasil

    But I'm not sure they call that job secretário/a. You'd have to ask a Brazilian.
     
  11. Naomasa298

    Naomasa298 HP: 10/190 Status: Confused Contributor

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    And this is another reason to keep foreign languages out of writing. If you don't speak the language and get it wrong, you'll be panned by people who do speak it.
     
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  12. Aldarion

    Aldarion Active Member

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    Personally? I would say, if your character understands the language, no reason not to translate it. If he does not understand it, no reason to write down the words: just note that they are talking in "gibberish" or something.
     

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