Writing Diverse Cast

Discussion in 'Character Development' started by Lina Lavender, Jan 17, 2021.

  1. Friedrich Kugelschreiber

    Friedrich Kugelschreiber marshmallow Contributor

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    And then we threw their damn tea in the harbor where it belongs.
     
  2. Naomasa298

    Naomasa298 HP: 10/190 Status: Confused Contributor

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    And now you're moaning because we want to tax Starbucks...
     
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  3. Xoic

    Xoic Prognosticator of Arcana Ridiculosum Contributor Blogerator

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    Oh no, not the coffee now!! Today's Paul Revere will probably just tweet "The Red Coats are coming! The Read coats are coming!" and then nobody will do anything.
     
  4. Lina Lavender

    Lina Lavender New Member

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    Mckk, answering your question. This is indeed interesting that East Asians are viewed positively around the world.

    So this is what I’ve learned. The border between Russia and Korea was established in 1861 and Korean government sent 4000 soldiers to control it. The locals living near the border had to feed this army for free. The peasants also experienced hunger because of the growing population of the country and the lack of land.

    Peasants fled the border because there was more land for living behind it. There weren’t much Russians near it, just Russian army which also needed food but at least they paid for it. Russian empire even gave benefits to immigrant Koreans. Meanwhile Korean government declared death penalty for crossing the border. So those who decided to go to Russia knew they could never come back.

    When more and more people came to Russia from Korea, Russian government tried to relocate them from farther the border. Those who came before 1884 got Russian citizenship. Those who came after were still considered Korean and later Japanese.

    But at a certain time period Russian government became scared of mass migration. However no one was sent back. Instead Koreans were relocated to Middle Asia by Stalin because he was afraid they could spy for Japan which was proven to be a wrong decision and Russia officially apologized for that in the 1993. Some Koreans travelled to the South of Russia on their own prior to that. And Russian people were sent to the Far East.

    However Koreans and Russians developed normal relationships from the start. Koreans were humble and hard-working and usually not engaged in illegal activities. Koreans were sometimes robbed by bands of Chinese immigrants and asked Russian police for protection. There were turbulent periods when Koreans were considered Japanese spies but then essentially they integrated into society.

    We have Russian-Korean celebrity singer, Victor Tsoi. He died when he was only 28 years old but he left such a legacy to be considered an icon. There's a place in Moscow which is called "The Wall of Tsoi". It is full of writings of fans but the most important one is "Tsoi is alive". Russians love him so much they refuse to consider him dead.

    These days Russian youth is obsessed with everything Korean - K-pop, TV series, cosmetics.
     
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  5. Lina Lavender

    Lina Lavender New Member

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    No, you may continue this discussion. It is very interesting to read about your experiences.
     
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  6. Naomasa298

    Naomasa298 HP: 10/190 Status: Confused Contributor

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    The perception has suffered a bit though because of Covid-19 and the way China is conducting itself.
     
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  7. Mckk

    Mckk Member Supporter Contributor

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    Interesting - I would have thought it'd be reversed. That in Tokyo since they're more used to foreigners, they should be more open to them speaking Japanese. But what you said makes sense too - if they always keep tourists then I guess someone like you would be more of a shock. And in the countryside with their need not to lose face as well as making sure someone else doesn't either, the relief over your Japanese also makes sense. I love this sort of thing - gives you a new perspective!

    That they still have places that don't serve foreigners is rather shocking and appalling though. I knew racism is bad there but that's like a whole other level of bad :ohno:
     
  8. Whitecrow

    Whitecrow Active Member

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    My thoughts:

    The problem with most stories with a diverse cast of characters. People are afraid of offending someone. Therefore, they always get stereotypical and boring cardboard
    characters.

    All characters must have both positive and negative qualities.
    (Kind characters are usually quite sad and unhappy, though they don't show it. And since they themselves are unhappy, they try to make others happy.
    Confident characters tend to put their opinions above others, and often start making decisions instead of other people in their lives, believing that it’s better.
    And so with all kinds of characters, every trait of a person has a second side.)
    All qualities have continuation in the history of these characters.

    Example:
    Yoruba man
    (A boss who knows 10 languages means a person had to work very hard, both in order to become the boss, and in order to learn languages.
    Taking so much time and effort to be successful means that he believes in his own responsibility. Why does he need so many languages? Or is it his Achilles heel. It seems that at one time he could not get along with his peers, could not find understanding with them. Because of this, he grew up very lonely, and learned languages, as in communication with people of other peoples and nations. It began to seek communication and connection with other peoples and nations as a way to fight loneliness. It will also explain kindness, good nature, and hard work.)
    This leaves us with your character, but it has become much deeper. At some point in the story, you can reveal this hidden side.

    You do not write only what he is, but you also write why he is, and what story brought him here. What story made the character the way he is.

    You don't write characters that way because you need them that way. You write them that way because something made them that way.

    PS:
    But no one would write about deeply diverse characters. Yes, they are more interesting. But there are people who will shout very loudly that they are offended.
    For example, here they will be unhappy with the fact that it will be shown that the black ones as a community can also harass members of their own community.
    That men in the patriarchy cannot feel lonely. Those who wish to find will find many more things for which they will be offended.
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2021
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  9. Whitecrow

    Whitecrow Active Member

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    The consequence of my communication with them.

    Not Korean, everyone from other countries.
    It's just that there are very few interesting things in the country. The country is gray, lifeless, like scenery for the post-apocalypse. Therefore, everything that comes from outside turns out to be like a breath of fresh air for them.

    So this is not the case in Korea, they will be just as happy to learn something about any other country in the world.

    https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/MIUvvwpwRi92mq7e4sSFSUaxZnwbtj9BBD4HHwMlQQhSmDy3o8wKKZp_tf6q8SthFGjwAngdjuNFu8UXMfZmrxC-pPTYVumj1DAYij4wj3hy2WRNOwQBK0A
    https://img.fotokonkurs.ru/cache/photo_1500w/photos/2011/12/22/8/3f34a43fd94d6073e212f06473549d04/c0b846c15337695ba89394609444631871c3df1e.jpg

    My observations.

    From the negative they often have sarcastic, dеpresive or even black humor and offensive humor. Again, the consequences of life in their gray reality and the search for a way to cope with this, and many cope with the help of humor, any kind of humor.

    They are also extremely friendly. They try to be friends with everyone and almost always.
    They are loyal, reliable and always ready to help. If you are in danger, call a Russian friend. He will arrive earlier than 911 and will be much more efficient. They are very brave, but this often verges on indifference to their own life and health.

    They divide all people into friends and enemies. Better be a friend. Since anyone who behaves somehow negatively with their friends automatically becomes an enemy. And you better not be enemies with the Russian. They very sincerely both love their friends and hate their enemies, and will always find a way to get their enemies. With their sense of humor, they know many ways to play a trick on you so that you will not be happy.

    Russians are very honest, sincere people who prefer to pronounce everything in person. Preferring straightforwardness in everything.

    They do not like to rely on others, so they try to be able to do everything on their own, and ask for help only in extreme cases, although they themselves will always be happy to help in any matter. (If someone asks for help, then this is something serious. The logic of the Russians.) Most Russians are good at handling tools and are skilled craftsmen and repairmen. They are not as skilled as the professionals in these professions. But they are mostly of the amateur level.
    Men: most of them know how to repair cars, electrical appliances, build, assemble furniture and equipment, etc.
    Women: sewing, embroidery.


    They have a very close community. Since the state does not help the people, and people, in order to survive, rely on themselves and those around them. If someone has a problem that cannot be solved alone, then everyone gets together and solve it together.

    For the same reason, they do not trust law enforcement agencies. Law enforcement agencies have plans for arrests, as a result, all police officers carry drugs with them in order to always be able to frame someone.

    Therefore, they never trust the police, but solve problems themselves. Therefore, Russians are not very afraid of criminals and are ready to enter into conflict even with dangerous and armed people.

    Russians have a joke about the course of solving the problem in Russia.
    "Problem solving plan.
    1) Threaten.
    2) Offer a bribe.
    3) Find out what the problem is. "
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2021
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  10. ruskaya

    ruskaya Contributor Contributor

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    I want to make a consideration, and I wanted to post it in another thread that it has now been locked, so this is the thread that resembles the most the topic I want to discuss, hope it is ok to post here.

    Now that I have read Murakami's Norwegian Wood, set in Japan with all Japanese characters, it struck me how "universal" its themes and characters are. If it weren't because it mentions places in Tokyo, combinations of foods that are typically Japanese, vending machines everywhere, and a few more details, I wouldn't know it was set in Japan. With a few changes the story could be believably have been set in a number of other countries. I don't know if I am missing details about Japanese culture, but the way the main cast behaves, given that they are around 20 years old, is rather free, typical of the late '60s. It doesn't reflect at all what I heard and learned about Japanese society. I recognize any left or right-wing behaviors of that time, but not what makes them specifically Japanese.

    Is it wrong to read this novel this way?

    My general point is that some books are distinctively about diversity because they are set in a context that calls for specific contrasts, like Faulkner or Morrison's novels. I feel it is the history of those places that makes their diversity relevant and noticeable. But if I place a minority character in a novel, I am not sure how to show specifically their ethnicity/culture/diversity. Any ideas of what I am missing?
     
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  11. Friedrich Kugelschreiber

    Friedrich Kugelschreiber marshmallow Contributor

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    To read it in a way that emphasizes universal human themes and characters? Isn't that the preferred way to read most novels?
     
  12. ruskaya

    ruskaya Contributor Contributor

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    yes, but also to consider other people's cultures and the relationship among different populations (especially minorities), that is human too. Aside from writing about/reading for the universal human themes and characters, is the "universal" something we project because we don't pick up of cultural cues?
     
  13. Xoic

    Xoic Prognosticator of Arcana Ridiculosum Contributor Blogerator

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    I think universal themes are profoundly important, but they should exist on a subtextual level. On the surface stories should reflect the cultures and people who write them. This more accurately represents reality.
     
  14. Friedrich Kugelschreiber

    Friedrich Kugelschreiber marshmallow Contributor

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    Maybe Japanese college life in the free-wheeling sixties was less foreign than you think?
     
  15. Lina Lavender

    Lina Lavender New Member

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    I've been a bit inactive in this thread lately but I appreciate everyone's input and just wanted to say thank you!

    Whitecrow Thank you so much for your reply! I agree that many writers these days are afraid to offend someone, myself included. Fear really stiffles creativity. But we also get cardboard characters because of writers' ignorance. Some writers don't do their research and thus fall into stereotypes.

    This is a really interesting perspective on my Yoruba character. Initially I thought that he knows so many languages because he travels extensively and has to communicate with locals somehow. He's also not only hardworking but also physically strong. But I didn't want him to fall into a stereotype of a dumb jock because he's not that at all. He's intellectual in his own way, he's down to earth and has a way with people. They listen to him because he posesses leadership qualities. He has excellent memory and attention to details. He makes mistakes sometimes but he owns them and he's pretty wise despite not being a bookish type. His knowledge comes directly from life itself.

    I just want to educate myself to write a better narrative.

    Your second message got me a bit confused because I didn't realise you were speaking about Russians from the start. I am Russian and I lived here my whole life. I'm not sure where are you from however. I find many of your observations correct but our country is not gray and lifeless. It's actually vast and there are different climate zones and nature. Soviet architecture is pretty generic but there are historical centers in many cities. And historical cities like Suzdal or Kolomna are very colorful. There are many brightly painted old wooden houses.

    Change of seasons is very distinct in Russia. We're not always covered in snow and mud. In spring and summer Russia becomes so green that eyes hurt. And in autumn everything is beautiful golden and red. There are also places where sun shines more than 300 days a year and many of these places are surpsisingly in Siberia. Typical summer in Russia looks like this.

    https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.pinterest.ru%2Fpin%2F242138917444647224%2F&psig=AOvVaw0RgqZDCt8OCg4eiNOPeL4d&ust=1612979441480000&source=images&cd=vfe&ved=0CAIQjRxqFwoTCMjsveyu3e4CFQAAAAAdAAAAABBO

    And we also have Sochi, Altai, Baikal and many other wonderful places with amazing nature.

    Our humor is not especially dark but we tend to laugh at absurd things we find in our lives. That's why Russian humor is often hard to translate. It's deeply rooted in the reality we're living in.

    But I agree that we're generally friendly and curious about other cultures. That may be because of the Iron curtain and the fact we were separated from the other cultures for decades.

    And the fact that people here don't trust police and government much is the repercussion of the wild 90s when banditism raised its ugly head and police became corrupt.

    Speraking about tools and crafts, it applies to older people more. They can indeed repair a car or sew a dress. But young Russians don't posess these skills by large. For example, my mother and grandmother are great at knitting but I don't do any crafts. I couldn't do it even if my life depended on it. They tried to teach me as a kid but I showed more interest in books than in crafts so they gave up their lessons. I guess that's why I ended up on this forum.
     
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  16. Thomas Larmore

    Thomas Larmore Senior Member

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    The United States is less diverse than Europe, but I disagree with the notion that the states aren't that different.

    New York and Texas are very different.

    In New York, people tend to be rude, even people giving you customer service. In Texas, people tend to be extremely polite, even to total strangers.
     
  17. Whitecrow

    Whitecrow Active Member

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    Perhaps my personal experience. Perhaps in other parts of the country it may be different. But I came to one city in Russia. It was the height of summer. But it was constantly raining or foggy outside. It was a little chilly. As I said, the color atmosphere around was in grays and browns. All buildings looked old. The sight of the world around me made me sad.

    I completely agree. This is part of what I was trying to explain.

    I was visiting a small town. In Russia, they say about such cities that they are dying out. There are almost no jobs in them, and the residents are usually elderly people. Since I was mainly able to communicate with older people, my opinion about Russians was mainly based on them.
    They all had small farms where they grew food and then lived on it until the next harvest. Each had many tools, and each knew how to use them. Perhaps life in cities or younger generations is different.

    But I tried to be as honest as possible in my representation of Russians.
     
  18. Whitecrow

    Whitecrow Active Member

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    When I write characters, I always divide them into three components.
    1) The past.
    The past is responsible for what the character went through and what brought him here. It transforms into character traits and motivation. This relationship also works in the opposite direction.

    2) Motivation.
    What the character wants. What are his goals? This is the most important and it affects the other elements the most.
    You don't have to show motivation, but you have to keep it in mind. To be able to compare any action of the character with the motivation of the character, while not bumping into contradictions.

    3) Traits.
    Balance is important here. You can't just make a character capable of everything, or vice versa, absolutely useless. You have to give him skills that make sense for his past and motivation, plus balance with some negative things about the character. Personally, I write here both character skills and personality traits. Thus, I have more opportunities to balance the character.


    I know that many of the kind people are not very happy. They are quite dramatic people, although they don't show it. They trust and help others, but they are often used and betrayed in return. They are often unhappy and try to make others happy in the hope that someone else will make them happy. They often try hard for people who don't appreciate it at all.

    (Everyone pretends to be your friends, but only when they need something from you. But as soon as they get what they need, they start treating you like trash, because they know that because of your kindness, you will never attack them back. They know that if they ask, you will help them even if a minute before that they insulted you. Girls are also not interested in good-natured people, all that awaits them is the friend zone.
    Kindness brings only pain to kind people. Because of loneliness, such people accepting even such broken relationships. But they continue to hope, continue to try to find those who understand them.

    In the beginning, people are grateful for your help. Then they begin to take it for granted. Then they want more. Then they are unhappy that you cannot give more. After all, they hate you.)

    Great efforts require strong motivation. Loneliness, despair, depression, constant mental suffering and constant pressure on yourself perfectly complement the things that you wrote about the character.
    One moment after another disappointment in people, he may break down.
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2021

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