1. deadrats

    deadrats Contributor Contributor

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    Social media sucks

    Discussion in 'Marketing' started by deadrats, Apr 18, 2021.

    I feel like when I tweet no one even notices I'm saying anything. It's just hard for me to engage in social media. The whole thing is just starting to bore me and I just feel I can't be bothered. I have posted links to my published works across social media. Twitter shows you how many people click the link. It's sad when that number is below seven. I was trying for a while, but now social media almost seems pointless. I'll probably still post links when I publish new stuff, but I haven't even checked Facebook in over a week, and still don't really care to. Has anyone else thought this way over social media? I mean I guess it's an easy way to contact someone. And I do think social media has been a benefit in many ways. But maybe I'm over it? Anyone quit or kind of quit social media?
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2021
  2. Bruce Johnson

    Bruce Johnson Contributor Contributor Contest Winner 2023

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    There are a lot of people trying to do the same thing, if everyone could post links and get thousands of hits everyone would be doing it.

    If you already aren't a celebrity it will take awhile to build a meaningful following. Do you have a blog or are you already well known in certain circles?

    I haven't posted any written stuff online yet, maybe never will, but I do have a youtube channel unrelated to writing. Doesn't get a ton of hits and I mostly post stage mixes of an artist that will remain nameless. Anyways, my view is as long as I create something that at least one person likes, I've succeeded with whatever was posted. I know, aiming high, I am
     
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  3. hyacinthe

    hyacinthe Banned

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    Twitter isn't actually for selling books, and people who want twitter to be for selling books are bound to be disappointed.

    I don't know if I can explain how to use Twitter or how to think about it. I don't have a lot of followers myself, but I've been on the platform for a long time and what you are doing on Twitter is Being You In Public.

    It's not about selling books. It's about building the number of people who will see your name on a book cover and say, "Oh! I know who that is! I've heard of them before! They're (this is where they remember how you made them feel.)" and then, based on however they *feel* about you, they will pick up your book or will walk past it. if they pick it up, then you have to let your cover copy and your opening do the work of convincing them to take the book to the cashier and buying it.

    But trying to mount any kind of direct sales campaign for more than say 5% of your tweets is a waste of time and honestly probably a bad idea. I never follow twitter users who are only posting links to their work. They simply do not add value to my feed. I have limited time so everyone on my TL has to bring something worthwhile.

    My advice is to use Twitter to exclusively follow people who add value to your feed. and talk to people about stuff you're interested in. provide a link to your website in your bio, your best brag on your pinned tweet, and just go be excellent to people. understand that it takes a long time to grow an account. years. i've been on twitter since 2012. this is about patience.
     
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  4. RMBROWN

    RMBROWN Senior Member

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    Social media is just like a party, if you talk about only yourself, seek to be the center of attention by ignoring others, you'll end up standing in the corner all by yourself by the end of the party.
     
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  5. J.T. Woody

    J.T. Woody Book Witch Contributor

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    theres an art to it.
    there are whole college courses on it, as well (my university had a course in the journalism program about Live Tweets and all that jazz).
    I took an elective for my grad program was was about Social Networking (sound easy... i thought it WOULD be easy, but it was so flipping hard!). One of the assignments was to get something to go viral on social media without being inappropriate, of course, and it had to be original content... not shared.
    I only have a Facebook, and I've been avoiding it today. I have it set to private, and i know all of my "friends" personally and like 90% of them cant be bothered with me. needless to say, i didn't succeed in getting anything to go viral.
     
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  6. pyroglyphian

    pyroglyphian Word Painter

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    That's exactly it. Gotta be more imaginative than just posting links to your work.
     
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  7. KevinMcCormack

    KevinMcCormack Senior Member

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    I'm lucky in that I know in advance that my author marketing model is not going to use social media *engagement* as a sales tool.

    It's sort of accidental: I don't use it in my personal life. It's not a resistance to technology. I got my Facebook account in 2006.

    It's a resistance to corporate surveillance and toxic social environments. I think I stopped using it around 2010.

    So that gave me an unbiased starting point to investigate its ROI over the last couple of years as part of developing a marketing plan. The ROI from social media engagement appears to be very low and dropping, possibly even negative now.

    This would have been a different story 10 years ago - the ROI was much better then. Originally, I thought this meant I missed the boat; but now I realize it means I dodged a bullet.

    This is a different question than the one about using the platforms as an *advertising* channel. I think FB and Twitter and Amazon ads have a good return.

    Note: this relates to the previous thread about author websites.
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2021
  8. NigeTheHat

    NigeTheHat Contributor Contributor

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    Use social media if you enjoy it. If you don't, don't. If all you're after is the audience, then you can buy one through ads. If you don't want to pay for ads, you'll need to build it - and that means posting frequently and being funny or controversial or interesting. All the authors I follow on Twitter I follow as people, because they were funny or controversial or interesting - most of them I was following for some time before I had any clue what they wrote.

    But if you don't enjoy doing it, you'll find that pretty hard. Do the marketing you're going to do, not the marketing you'll find any excuse to avoid.
     
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  9. SlayerC79

    SlayerC79 Banned

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    I loathe social media. Always have, always will.

    It's toxic. It's full of cyber bullies. It give people cyber courage. It gives people an anonymity that promotes bad behaviour. It makes kids self conscious about their looks, their way of thinking and their general way of being.

    It's full of people that suffer from Narcissistic personality disorder. It's full of a bunch of selfish, egotistical and moronic flaming piles of morons.

    But then again... it's not "social media" as it is human beings.

    Human beings were given the beautiful planet of Earth and they ruined it. It's hardly surprising that they'd turn social media into a cesspit of hate.
     
  10. deadrats

    deadrats Contributor Contributor

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    Why? I want people to read my stuff. I'm a writer and all my friends and followers know this. It's my life. I hardly ever post things that aren't related to writing. I'm not trying to get more followers or attention from anything not related to my writing. I'm an essayist and short story writer for the most part and I'm not trying to sell anything. I've already been paid by publishers. It's my writing that's important not stupid tweets that have nothing to do with my work. I'll get creative and imaginative with my writing because that's where it really counts, no?
     
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  11. deadrats

    deadrats Contributor Contributor

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    I'm honestly not sure how anything goes viral. Any tips from your class to share?
     
  12. Homer Potvin

    Homer Potvin A tombstone hand and a graveyard mind Staff Supporter Contributor

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    Thing is advertising isn't about retaining the customers you already have (your friends and followers who already "know this"), but adding new customers you wouldn't be able to reach otherwise. But you said you said you're "not trying to sell anything," so what's the point of social media then? Moreover, what are you expecting it to do that it isn't doing, vis a vis your goals for using it in the first place.
     
  13. deadrats

    deadrats Contributor Contributor

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    I guess I was just hoping to become some sort of superstar. ;)
     
  14. Homer Potvin

    Homer Potvin A tombstone hand and a graveyard mind Staff Supporter Contributor

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    I hear that, but why would you be a superstar without doing all the social media gimmicks that people do to attract followers?
     
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  15. deadrats

    deadrats Contributor Contributor

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    For the writing. Seriously, where are my fans and stalkers?
     
  16. Bruce Johnson

    Bruce Johnson Contributor Contributor Contest Winner 2023

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    You haven't even told us how many followers you have, how many impressions your tweets get. Social media is a very difficult place to grow a writing following organically.

    Let's say you wrote a short story, that was, as Tenacious D would say, 'The best short story in the world'. You share a link to it. In order to read it, the user probably has to close their browser or social media app. Then, maybe 15-30 minutes later, what do you expect them to do? Log back in and share it before doing anything? Even if they did, it's unlikely many of their 'friends' would care. Social media is mostly about instant gratification and arguing about politics.
     
  17. hyacinthe

    hyacinthe Banned

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    ...no.

    even if you write an essay or a short story that people like, if your twitter sucks it's actually worse for you than not having a twitter at all. I will say it again: Twitter is not useful for the direct sales of books. It's not. Nothing is going to change that. Twitter is where you perform your public face for the sake of creating parasocial interaction, and that is all. If you hate that idea just delete the account, because it will do you no good.
     
  18. J.T. Woody

    J.T. Woody Book Witch Contributor

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    honestly, i've purged it all from my mind :dead:
     
  19. deadrats

    deadrats Contributor Contributor

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    I'm not trying to sell books or anything. I just want to be literary famous. ;) Really, though, how is it better to have no twitter than a sucky twitter? How do I know if my twitter sucks? I don't think it's hurting me to primarily post links to published works. I mean I like to read the stuff other writers I'm connected to who post links to their latest published pieces. That's more interesting than some witty comment about what they had for breakfast and a picture of crispy bacon. And I don't have any desire to create some sort of public face or image. I like being myself. I don't know. It's just that since twitter shows you how many people actually click on the link you post it can feel a little disheartening. I don't think posting other things would actually help this. But for the seven people on twitter who actually click my links, I'll keep posting like I have been. I did have an agent contact me through twitter after reading a story I had posted a link to. I'm not sure how this agent came across me or my story in the first place. I think he must follow the journal that published my story. So, I guess twitter can be good for selling books. I just don't have a book to sell at the moment.

    I don't really like the idea of feeling like I have to create or maintain a persona that's any different than who I am. I don't think that's really going to have any sort of effect on anything. I just feel like why are all these people (not a ton) following me if they aren't reading me? Maybe I'm having better luck on Facebook than twitter, but facebook doesn't give you the same kind of stats. And like @J.T. Woody my facebook is set to private, though, I'm more than happy when friends share my stuff. You seem to have a strong opinion on how to social media the right way. What are you doing that's worked for you? I'm genuinely curious and would love any tips. Has whatever you've been doing been beneficial to you as a writer? I'm not really interested in inflating the number of followers I have if it's just a number and not an actual follower if that makes sense.
     
  20. hyacinthe

    hyacinthe Banned

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    good, because that's a super terrible idea, lol

    Hard to say, really. Possibly? Dunno. My agent likes how I do twitter. My publishers seem to approve. My follower count seems to increase more than it decreases but I don't keep track of the numbers. I'm not blue checked and probably never will be. I've had a couple posts go unquestionably viral and a handful of other posts that keep popping up across other platforms that have been in circulation for years. I've gotten invitations for speaking gigs, panels, teaching opportunities, solicitations to write stories for anthologies. I've had some wonderful conversations, been thanked for advice or relating my experiences, picked up Patreon subscribers...I've given good word of mouth references to other people's art, introduced people to bands they didn't know about...and i post pictures of the meals i've cooked and been hollered at for recipes.

    I talk about and attempt to start discussions on the craft of writing. I run my mouth about society. I ask questions of Twitter, and Twitter answers. and when i have book news, I share it, but it's a very small slice of what-all i'm doing there.

    good, because that's a super terrible idea too!
     
  21. pyroglyphian

    pyroglyphian Word Painter

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    Yes, that’s what you want, understood. However, as per your first post, that’s (apparently) not what ‘people’ want. So you can 1) give up, 2) keep doing the same and getting the same result, or 3) try something new.

    Forgive me if this seems presumptuous... but you are. It’s just that you hope for people to pay with their time and attention rather than their money.
     
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  22. NobodySpecial

    NobodySpecial Contributor Contributor

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    My wife set up a Facebook page for me years ago, primarily so she could get extra stuff for her games. Of the 300some ‘friends’ I actually know about 20, of those I’m related to about 15.(and I haven’t seen most of them in about 30 years.) In general I avoid Facebook. My experience has shown it to be a great-stinking-hive-mind-troll pit. When I do look it’s full of posts from people complaining about this politician or that party, someone said something about someone else and now somehow deserves to lose their job, their home, and their family over it, or just the never ending search for something to be offended by. I’m telling you, it’s just freaking draining.

    There’s an upside to being an introvert.
     
  23. alittlehumbugcalledShe

    alittlehumbugcalledShe Active Member

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    I literally just use Facebook to post links to music. Or I just message friends. I don't even care about engagement at this point. Especially as a 24 year old, though, I am feeling that pressure to hAVE A MilLioN fOlLOwERS before I can even look at a traditional publisher. Or hell, even an acting agent. FFS. Tolkien didn't have to put up with this shit. Why should I? Someone else can deal with that stuff, make it look professional if they'd like, but I don't think I'll personally take part.

    The real reason is that, you know what, at the end of the day, people don't really care about this thing or that thing that I have an opinion on, and that's okay.

    Some people would probably sell more books if they stayed off the likes of Twitter, but that's for another conversation.
     
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  24. deadrats

    deadrats Contributor Contributor

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    I post links to my writing the same way you do to your music, I imagine. The work's done. The project's finished. Of course, I want to show everyone I know at that point. I wouldn't want to work with a publisher who gave a shit about my social media. That is absurd. We are writers, not contestants in a popularity contest. Honestly, I only want to interact with people I respect both in work and life. I feel lucky to have worked with many of the publishers and editors I have in recent years. And no one has asked me anything about social media or promoting my work. It's all been the writing that mattered at the end of the day. I would tell anyone in publishing who cares about your followers on social media to f--- off.

    That doesn't take away from the fact that I would like more likes. Who doesn't want to be liked. So, yeah, I've been posting links to my published works because I'm proud of them. I guess it could even be seen as the literary equivalent of an awesome meal photo, though, sorry, I hate the meal photos. But I'm just sharing parts of what I'm doing with my life. And, I guess, it's boring me because I'm not a superstar. You know, post something that gets likes in the double digits. Okay, it's happened. But on twitter I can see the number of people who actually click on it. I'm not planning to quit going on every now and then. It is good for messaging people. My career is going well. Sometimes writing feels like all I've got. Thank God, no publisher has ever asked me anything about social media. That would really piss me off.

    I'm not too worried about social media. It is what it is. I like coming to this forum so much more than going on social media. I just wanted to check in with you guys and get your thoughts on this.
     
  25. KevinMcCormack

    KevinMcCormack Senior Member

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    I feel like I'm a 'milder' version of what you describe for yourself.

    I don't use social media personally (for reasons listed above: privacy, sanity...), but am resigned to the likelihood that I will be using it for my writing business, and it's part of my branding model. But I'm not expecting to use it as a sales channel.

    There was a woman in one of my writing circles who printed up a hundred copies of her poetry book and sold it by attending writing meetups and flogging it to other attendees. I think it took her a few years, but she sold them all. So I can't say this sales channel "can't sell books" - but I AM confident it doesn't scale to the volume I need to make a living off it. I estimate I'd have to sell thousands of copies a month to pay my bills.

    I regard social media the same way. It's not impossible to sell books through organic interaction; I could sell a few books on social media if I had to. But it doesn't look like it can scale enough for my business model, so I can't justify investing too much time there.

    The key phrase there was "too much time." I do appreciate that not having a presence at all can be a barrier to sales. Just as an example, I was trying to locate my parents' veterinarian's phone number when their dog got sick. They've had some strokes and misplaced his number at some point. He works out of his home and does not have a web page, does not have any social media, does not have a business phone number (uses his personal phone). The closest he had to a web presence was that some domain squatter registered his name and it linked to their hot tub business. I was SOL finding him online, and had to call a different vet. It was a good demonstration of how online presence does have utility in 2021. So I accept that I need to cover the absolute minimum to secure my branding on the major platforms.

    And I'm not offended by Agents and Publishers asking me about my online presence. If they want more, then they're not a good fit, and that's business. I appreciate them being up front about it.
     
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