Interested in eclectic, discursive autobiography and memoir writing

Discussion in 'New Member Introductions' started by pnart, Apr 13, 2021.

  1. J.T. Woody

    J.T. Woody Book Witch Contributor

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2018
    Messages:
    4,129
    Likes Received:
    8,663
    Examples for you:

    This is a work of literary fiction, but its the one that I mention that is more "art" than anything. He's written 5 volumes so far, but has planned 27 volumes.
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]


    travelogue of the author who accidently buys a cottage in Marthas Vineyard. The book is actually her diary, and looks like a scrapbook. it has her musings, recipes, lessons learned, photos, etc.
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    One of Jay-Z's many biographies. This one is a mixture of prose, song lyrics, conversations, and photography.
    [​IMG]
     
  2. pnart

    pnart New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2021
    Messages:
    17
    Likes Received:
    8
    Location:
    Chelmsford MA USA
    So if you don't have an association with the institution (i.e., you're not a student, faculty, employee or major donor) in question would you still be able to avail yourself of their resources?

    My guess is 'no' because I have a rare blood disease and have tried to use the libraries associated with Harvard and Tufts Medical schools and was rebuffed. Luckily I'm being treated at MGH in Boston so I could get access to specialty journals, etc, that way.


    I'll check that out. Since one of the things I want to study in other authors' works is how they handle reality in the stretches when reality doesn't provide a conveniently dramatic plotline, I hope Knausgård doesn't get too "creative". One thing I want to be strict about is facts and details.

    ...

    I've heard good things about it. I wasn't aware that it was written in an unconventional way - I thought it was straight-ahead narrative, linear journalism - but I'll take a look at it.

    This one sounds fascinating.

    Thanks for the suggestions!
     
    jannert and J.T. Woody like this.
  3. pnart

    pnart New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2021
    Messages:
    17
    Likes Received:
    8
    Location:
    Chelmsford MA USA
    I used to have a Facebook account but I cancelled it in 2015. I was in a writers' group and a poetry group and several other groups related to my various interests. But I noticed that it was almost impossible on Facebook to have a discussion about anything "deep" or subtle or extensive. There was just something about Facebook culture that seemed to encourage short - almost bumper-ticker short - postings that were more aimed at being cute or "pithy" than having a long, serious conversation about anything.

    I have a rare blood cancer called a MyeloProliferative Neoplasm and in 2014 I joined a facebook MPN group, and it was fine for posting short messages of support, but since I have a bioscience background I started posting more scientific and medical information and quickly discovered that people seldom read postings that had more than one paragraph on Facebook.

    I'll see if the Amazon AI can do anything, but I'd rather talk with other human writers. I just don't know where the non-fiction writers hang out.
     
  4. Selbbin

    Selbbin The Moderating Cat Staff Contributor Contest Winner 2023

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2012
    Messages:
    5,160
    Likes Received:
    4,243
    Location:
    Australia
    One strategy is to create an alter-ego, like Bukowski did by creating Hank Chanaski. His stories are mostly biographical, but he was able to bend the truth and spice things up for dramatic, creative effect. (Many of the beat writers also did this, most notably Kerouac)

    Another is to simply skip over it with basic reference to the period. "The next 5 years were a bore, working at the gold mine sifting through index cards for late arrivals. It did give me time to think about cheese, though, and try my hand at organ grinding. I wasn't very good. Then, in the summer of '63, I met Olivia...'
     
    jannert likes this.
  5. pnart

    pnart New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2021
    Messages:
    17
    Likes Received:
    8
    Location:
    Chelmsford MA USA
    I read the original Hollywood Babylon. It's written in the breathless, over-the-top style of Hollywood gossip magazines.
    I grew up living in a spread-out old country house in New London NH, long before that town became a popular resort for rich visitors from New York and Boston. My bedroom was a converted porch that stuck out into the woods far from the rest of the family. The house had been supplied by some trashy relative with hundreds of Coronet and Pageant magazines from the late 40's and early 50's, and even a few early Confidential magazines. As a small child I stayed awake long after everyone else was asleep, reading these. When I got older I discovered other stimulating uses for them.

    Gossip writing, like sports writing, is its own unique style and I love it, but I'm not sure how I would adapt it to autobiography.
     
  6. pnart

    pnart New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2021
    Messages:
    17
    Likes Received:
    8
    Location:
    Chelmsford MA USA
    Another possibility is to not be constrained by a need for linear narrative. And that's my goal, as I said in the OP. When you're 68 your mind jumps around. You don't necessarily see your life as linear or sequential. It's just as a jumble of experiences and topics. And the advantage of writing non-linearly is that you're less tempted to construct a story that seems teleological.

    I recently hired a new model. In the nude she reminds me of a model I had many years ago, so much so that I almost asked her if her mother was a model. How can I be so old and my models are still so young? ... I digress (mais oui, but of course!) ... So I could talk about my models; I could talk about how my late wife never minded naked models running around the house and used to invite all her friends to my gallery shows, but my new girlfriend is jealous of them. Or I could talk about acrylic paints versus oils for representing human skin, or black and white versus color for videos of it. Or the surprising number of models I've had who were poets with MFA's, and then segue into poetry workshops (I once attended one in Paris taught by one of my ex-models) and from there talk about the French Army guards outside Brentano's on the Avenue de l'Opéra, or my one experience doing a poetry reading at Shakespeare and Company, or maybe talk about dog poop or air pollution in Paris - my late wife and I once took refuge from the latter inside a tobacconist's shop - Et Cetera.

    I'd really like to stay nonlinear if I can because that's a more realistic depiction of how my life seems to me.

    But this is a great example of the conversation I'd like to have in a more appropriate non-fiction writing forum - if I can find one!
     
  7. Selbbin

    Selbbin The Moderating Cat Staff Contributor Contest Winner 2023

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2012
    Messages:
    5,160
    Likes Received:
    4,243
    Location:
    Australia
    Some people do construct a biography or autobiography around themes rather than timeline. Non-linear can work great this way, imo. Not really the story of a life (linear), but the stories of a life (non-linear). The same way you'd tell bits and pieces in a pub (I myself have become the old storyteller to the young'ns.... I accidentally casually said at work: "when I was living with subsistence farmers in the foothills of the himalayas..." leading to a whole story I wasn't even planning to tell, I was just making a point about something trivial.)

    I can't recall an example of one, but have come across it. It's a good way for someone to cover a varied experience if each experience spans the course of their life, such as artistic pursuits. That, or break them up along the timeline so in each section each theme is covered, like a rope with each strand being a theme. Can't help you with a more specific forum though.

    I don't feel all style references need to be real autobiographies to help with structure, but just similar concepts. Oddly I'd recommend a movie, My Dinner With Andre, and how Andre shares the stories of his life, (leading to a philosophical discussion that isn't relevant in this case). But the structure of the narrative is interesting.
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2021
  8. J.T. Woody

    J.T. Woody Book Witch Contributor

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2018
    Messages:
    4,129
    Likes Received:
    8,663
    Im not familiar with specialized libraries (medical), or private universities (Harvard). Public and State colleges and universities tend to allow non affiliates use their facilities but cannot check them out of the library. The university where i live now, they are one of the largest university in this part of the state require guests/non-students to sign in, but the public can still use their library.
     
  9. J.T. Woody

    J.T. Woody Book Witch Contributor

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2018
    Messages:
    4,129
    Likes Received:
    8,663
    Ive read this authors other works... Well, one other work... And Bookseller when compared to the other reads more like fiction than journalism.

    Nevermind! Same topic as Bookseller, different author tho
     
  10. deadrats

    deadrats Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2016
    Messages:
    6,088
    Likes Received:
    7,421
    I think you should check out The Suicide Index by Joan Wickersham. It's an amazing memoir that's got an unconventional structure. Probably my favorite memoir that I've read. Another unconventional memoir that I really liked was The Winter Sun: Notes on a Vocation by Fanny Howe. Both of these take very different approaches in storytelling and and structure. And they are both excellent reads.
     
  11. jannert

    jannert Retired Mod Supporter Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2013
    Messages:
    17,674
    Likes Received:
    19,889
    Location:
    Scotland
    I've just read through the thread. Your goal, @pnart, is a worthy one. As you have so much experience reading various types of writing, the potential for making this work is very high.

    However, I'm wondering if maybe you're overthinking your approach. I have a friend who has written a fantastic autobiography—which she refuses to get published while she's alive, due to sensitivity about people and relatives of people whom she's written about. However, that's neither here nor there ...her choice.

    What she did do, was start writing by simply writing scenes from her life as she remembered them ...in no particular order. The more she wrote, the more came back to her, and the more detailed she was able to become. Later on, after having written reams of unconnected vignettes, she studied what she'd written and the overall structure of the autobiography came to her. Rather than writing chronologically, she ended up grouping the writings by general topic. Holidays, birthdays, school days, early marriage, time spent working overseas, etc. That structure worked amazingly well—because each section had a specific purpose.

    Maybe you should just write the vignettes and analytical pieces as they occur to you. Worry about the overall structure later on. Don't worry about it being chronological. You'll have given yourself a LOT of material to work with, and what's important—and what's not—will get sorted out as you write. Of course you can impose structure at any time, when you see what it should be. But maybe get the events down first, if you're struggling to come up with structure now.

    Just start writing, and see what you get. And let your style evolve as well. Whatever feels natural to you will probably be the best choice.
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2021
    Mogador, deadrats, J.T. Woody and 3 others like this.
  12. petra4

    petra4 Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2021
    Messages:
    167
    Likes Received:
    81
    Location:
    Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
    Currently Reading::
    The Rose Demon by Steve Berry
    Hi and Welcome :)
    Your post caught my attention. I'm into reading non-fiction, biographies and memoirs.
    As far as writing forums go, I'd stay here (writingforums.org). BUT to help educate you further on "how to" write in this genre, I've posted a few links (below):

    https://literaryterms.net/when-and-how-to-write-autobiography/
    https://literaryterms.net/autobiography/

    https://fawnsw.org.au/writing-resources/life-writing/

    https://examples.yourdictionary.com/memoir-examples.html

    Another is https://www.goodreads.com/
    I didn't like it as I like to sit/watch in the background . . . keeping quiet

    A few Authors which caught my attention is Ayn Rand, Nien Cheng and Ernest Hemingway.
    Another Author is John Steinbeck but I've not read any non-fiction/memoirs/bios so cannot comment further.
     
  13. Mr magician

    Mr magician Member

    Joined:
    May 19, 2021
    Messages:
    34
    Likes Received:
    9
    Maybe can try magic realism literature,
    One example is 《one hundred years of solitude》
    . It is a way of chaos and order, fantasy and realism, fitting the real world history and strong personal color, originated in Latin America.
     
  14. AntPoems

    AntPoems Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2021
    Messages:
    1,033
    Likes Received:
    2,261
    Location:
    Philadelphia, PA
    Hello, pnart. If you're willing to look beyond memoirs for inspiration, I would suggest Douglas Hofstadter's classic Gödel, Eacher, Bach. It's one of the most fascinating books I've ever read, in large part because it's so playful and creative. It uses a variety of styles and structures to discuss the author's ideas about consciousness, many of which were inspired by Bach's fugues, and the unconventional nature really elevates it above similar dry academic tomes. It's considered to be one of the masterpieces of general non-fiction writing; there's really nothing else quite like it, before or since. Perhaps it could help inspire you as you blaze your own trail.
     
  15. pnart

    pnart New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2021
    Messages:
    17
    Likes Received:
    8
    Location:
    Chelmsford MA USA
    And that's the problem. I'm trying to find a community of people who DO regularly read non-fiction/memoirs/bios, so we can discuss these topics from a position of knowledge and experience, and critique each others' efforts in those areas.

    My girlfriend is having the same problem - she's also trying to write a memoir - very different from mine - and all the writers' groups she's found are comprised of fiction writers - genre fiction, at that. To be a good participant in a serious workshop group you need to read other people's work and critique it and she's bored out of her mind reading genre mysteries and science fiction!

    I read voraciously: history, biography, essays and fiction. Someone here mentioned Douglas Hofstadter - of course I've already read G.E.B, as well as many of his other books. I'm halfway through Le Ton Beau de Marot, because I also like poetry. I'd love to find some memoirs or autobiographies written in Hofstadter's discursive style. My taste in fiction runs more toward long-form "literary" works. I just finished Ulysses.

    But all the writers groups I've found are mostly genre-fiction writers. No one seems to be doing memoir, biography (auto or not), journalism (gonzo-or not), history, natural-history or science, or whatever you call what Douglas Hofstadter writes.

    Where do all the non-fiction writers hang out?
     
  16. pnart

    pnart New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2021
    Messages:
    17
    Likes Received:
    8
    Location:
    Chelmsford MA USA

    Yes, of course I read that in college and several time since. Along with many other books by Hofstadter. Currently reading Le Ton Beau de Marot.
     
  17. pnart

    pnart New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2021
    Messages:
    17
    Likes Received:
    8
    Location:
    Chelmsford MA USA
    Si claro. I've read everything Marquez has written, including his short stories and autobiographies. Other writers in that genre you should check out are Federico García Lorca and Isabel Allende. My previous g/f was born in Barranquilla, where Marquez lived as a child and where he was part of the Grupo de Barranquilla. It was while I was in Colombia that I decided to start this project.

    So yes, Marquez and Hofstadter have been major influences on me starting this project, and I'm also influenced by Hunter S Thompson and Jack Kerouac who comes from my hometown and, along with other "beat" poets has influenced my poetry.

    But I need to find a writers group with an interest in memoir and autobiography, and for some reason they're hard to come by.
     
  18. AntPoems

    AntPoems Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2021
    Messages:
    1,033
    Likes Received:
    2,261
    Location:
    Philadelphia, PA
    Hmm. Maybe memoirists tend to be more solitary than other writers? This place doesn't seem to attract too many, at least judging by the discussion and workshop activity, and if you've been struggling to find a good memoir group, there might not be one. Perhaps, then, it falls to you to create what you're looking for. Good luck, whatever you chose to do.
     
    Chromewriter likes this.
  19. jannert

    jannert Retired Mod Supporter Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2013
    Messages:
    17,674
    Likes Received:
    19,889
    Location:
    Scotland
    I have a very good friend who has written an excellent autobiography (but unpublished—she's worried that some persons might not like some of what she talked about.)

    It's intended as a record of 'how we lived' for her grandchildren and great-grandchildren to enjoy ...but not as a literary masterpiece for publication. However, it's damn good enough TO be published, if she ever overcame her scruples about it, because it paints a very strong picture of an era as well as a specific life, and is flawlessly written.

    Instead of choosing the usual linear format (I was born, then I went to school, etc) she chose to focus each chapter on a particular sort of issue or event. For example, she has one chapter entitled "Christmas" and included all her thoughts about celebrating Christmas ...memories from childhood, interspersed with memories from her adult life, and memories of Christmases with her children, and how she feels about it now, etc. She has a chapter on WW2 (which she lived through as a child) and what it was like at the time for her and her family. She has a chapter on music, which affected her family (who were amateur musicians) and her own life as a lover of traditional music and song ...and is how she met her current husband. She has written chapters on the various places she lived, which are rich with detail and impression and anecdote.

    If you have had a rather chaotic life—as most of us have!—this might be a way to organise your memoir? ...by type of event or issue, rather than a chronological "I did this, then I did that." It's actually interesting for a reader to know what issue is going to be discussed, as designated by the title of each chapter. It's also easier to skip over the boring bits. As a writer, it's also easier to develop your thoughts about each cluster of events or issues—and to focus on what you feel was important about each issue.

    At the end, my friend wrote a 'tying together' chapter, giving her impressions of looking back at her life, and finding significance.

    She said that once she got started, her specific memories came flooding back ...more than she ever thought she would be able to recall. Dates and times were a little muddled and needed confirmation, but impressions of people and events, plus visual and audial memories of how things looked and sounded, came through clear as anything.

    Just a suggestion?
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2021
  20. Chromewriter

    Chromewriter Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2021
    Messages:
    728
    Likes Received:
    521
    Location:
    Australia
    This seems to be the case. Nearly everyone had given a crack at referencing books for the thread master, but reality is that no one has actually said they like memoirs here, and that is the only thing OP seems to care about (finding memoir enthuasist to discuss books with).

    Plus to me personally, I think memoirs are the height of egoism. People only tend to write them as they are about to die, why wouldn't you just rather spend more time with the ones you love? Or at the very least, they can be the ones who you'd have the discussions with so that they can use that time and memoir to remember you by.

    It doesn't make sense to write a book that no one would care to read. Unless it's a book you'd want to read, but in that case may as well write a diary.
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2021
  21. pnart

    pnart New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2021
    Messages:
    17
    Likes Received:
    8
    Location:
    Chelmsford MA USA
    No, as I said above, - biographies, autobiographies, journalism, and other forms of non-fiction, especially creative non-fiction, would do fine. There have been plenty of great works crossing those genres - I know why the Caged Bird Sings, The Autobiography of Malcom X, any of the Fear and Loathing books, Pilgrim at Tinker Creek, The Moon's a Balloon, Born a Crime, a Moveable Feast, The Story of my Experiments with Truth, Sailor and Fiddler, The Boys on the Bus, etc, et cetera.

    The problem is broader than memoirs - Most of these online writing forums focus on fiction - non fiction in all of its forms gets little attention. And it's even worse in the suburbs where I live - my girlfriend is in two writers groups and not only is she the only-non-fiction writer; she's the only non-genre-fiction writer.
     
  22. Friedrich Kugelschreiber

    Friedrich Kugelschreiber marshmallow Contributor

    Joined:
    May 8, 2017
    Messages:
    4,744
    Likes Received:
    5,937
    Biographers tend often to be journalists and historians, and it’s rare that you’re going to have a career writing memoirs—it’s more often a kind of one and done sort of deal and maybe there aren’t enough repeat memoirists for large communities to build up. Plus, how often do self-professed writers write memoirs? Interesting people write memoirs, or people who think they’re interesting, whether or not they would consider themselves writers to begin with. If I were going to write a biography I would join a relevant history forum before I joined a writing forum, and if I were going to write a memoir the thought might not even occur to me.
     
    Chromewriter and Xoic like this.
  23. pnart

    pnart New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2021
    Messages:
    17
    Likes Received:
    8
    Location:
    Chelmsford MA USA
    But even biographers, journalists, and historians have to be good writers in order write good books. The best and most original journalism prose, and books such as the Boys on the Bus or the Fear and Loathing books (those are all memoirs, BTW), are not written in a style they teach at CJS. Ditto with autobiographers, science writers, and whatever we call the books that Douglas Hofstadter writes.

    So the question is why does the writing community seem to have so little interest in non-fiction? And if you want to be a good non-fiction writer where do you learn to do that, and workshop your work and get critiques for that kind of writing, among others who have an interest in that sort of writing?
     
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2021
  24. Chromewriter

    Chromewriter Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2021
    Messages:
    728
    Likes Received:
    521
    Location:
    Australia
    Because people don't find it interesting. Or the interest is so little there is not enough to knit a community around. Or the type of people who are interested, don't have the personality to which communities can be built around.
     
  25. Catriona Grace

    Catriona Grace Mind the thorns Contributor Contest Winner 2022

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2021
    Messages:
    6,260
    Likes Received:
    5,506
    I make a fair part of my living writing non-fiction. Non-fiction is bread and butter. Fiction is pecan pie with ice cream on the side. When our writers group meets, I like to serve dessert.
     
    AntPoems likes this.

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice