1. Leleluv

    Leleluv Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2019
    Messages:
    56
    Likes Received:
    36
    Location:
    The edge of flat earth.

    What is a good motivator for a villain in a fantasy setting?

    Discussion in 'Setting Development' started by Leleluv, Jun 22, 2021.

    So basically, I am stumped on how to characterize my villain. The biggest threats to my fantasy world are an uncurable disease and a zombie apocalypse of some sort. To specify, my main character is a magic user, and magic is banned in her world, with users entrapped by religious fanatics and peope of superstition. She tries to disprove the misconceptions of magic by proving it to have invaluable use in the medical field but accidently creates a ritualistic spell that recreates the bodies of the deceased, with all their previous owners abilities intact. The bodies are basically mindless shells for the animator to manipulate. My question is, what would be a good motivation for a villain to steal this spell and use it for bad? I'd prefer a direction where the villain is not doing it for a universally evil purpose, like world domination or revenge , but for what they percieve is good. Right now, I have an idea where the villain is using these recreated bodies to end a longstanding war that has exhausted their countries defenses. Any thoughts? Ideas?
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2021
  2. Trubbshore

    Trubbshore Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2021
    Messages:
    65
    Likes Received:
    33
    Location:
    Seated at my PC
    Currently Reading::
    Anonymous Rex
    The pursuit of power
     
  3. Keongxi

    Keongxi Member

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2021
    Messages:
    93
    Likes Received:
    34
    He owes an allegiance to a leader which is actually quite efficient and can rule properly. Only thing is the leader thinks that the (most horrible) means justifies the ends.
     
    Leleluv likes this.
  4. Le Panda Du Mal

    Le Panda Du Mal Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2020
    Messages:
    588
    Likes Received:
    623
    Resurrecting a dead lover is a popular one with dark magicians.
     
    Leleluv likes this.
  5. LucyAshworth

    LucyAshworth Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2020
    Messages:
    132
    Likes Received:
    78
    What would you do if you had the ability to raise the dead? You could have infinite manual labor. You could have infinite soldiers. With a little more research, you could refine this magic and perhaps do more than raise rotting corpses. What if you could truly revive spirits and gain access to their testimonies, secrets, and councils? Wait, is any of this truly infinite? What is the cost of raising the dead? Do you understand the legend of the zombie?

    Some villains are purely selfish, malicious, or corrupted by power. Many villains are simply written where the ends apparently do not justify the means, or so the protagonist says. Apparently causing the deaths of 1000 people is not worth saving the entire planet. What if you could end all wars? I could go on with all these possibilities, but I'd have to ask you what you mean first. You want your antagonist to use these abilities for "bad?" What do you mean by bad? Yet you want them to be a sympathetic character?
     
    Bridgetank93 and Leleluv like this.
  6. Leleluv

    Leleluv Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2019
    Messages:
    56
    Likes Received:
    36
    Location:
    The edge of flat earth.
    Villains don't abide fully by the nature of black nor protagonists white. Realistically, no one is going to chase after ambitious dreams like world domination without a solid cause. Mystical creatures maybe because you can make the excuse that their minds work differently. But I want a human baddie , one that's a world wide threat,, and humans have motivations that are complex and changing.

    These are good questions:"What would you do if you had the ability to raise the dead? You could have infinite manual labor. You could have infinite soldiers." But I want an answer as to why the villain wants these things. The answer can't be just cause they can or the opportunity is just there. What justifies the mass wide suffering of their actions? How are these things worth the sacrifices they themselves have to make? Are their ambitions worth the constant endangerment and infamy? Unless they are purely psychopathic, villains need strong reasons as to why they should forsake everything in their lives to screw the world over.
     
  7. Le Panda Du Mal

    Le Panda Du Mal Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2020
    Messages:
    588
    Likes Received:
    623
    Just look at history and current events. Even when such actions arise from transparently selfish motives, ideology and religion are routinely invoked for justification. Perhaps your villain genuinely believes they are righting a wrong, or making the world better. Perhaps to some extent they are right. Perhaps the villain is in fact from an oppressed class or nation and sees an army of the dead as way to wage asymmetric warfare against a powerful occupier. Think of Captain Nemo (an Indian) fighting the British empire with his submarine. In real life insurgencies, total ruthlessness is pretty much a necessity- not only does the guerilla expect to die horribly, but they are also willing to bring immense suffering on their loved ones and compatriots to accomplish what they believe will be liberation.
     
    Leleluv likes this.
  8. GH0ST

    GH0ST Member

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2017
    Messages:
    48
    Likes Received:
    9
    I think what you want to do will work just fine. An antagonist who wants to achieve a noble goal by taking extreme measures is almost always a formidable character.
     
  9. Fervidor

    Fervidor Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2020
    Messages:
    448
    Likes Received:
    441
    Location:
    Sweden
    This actually a characterization topic, not a setting one. Specifically, knowing your villain's motivation is effectively the same thing as knowing who your villain is.

    The way I see it, a villain is someone who wants something very, very badly and is willing to do anything necessary to get it, including causing harm to other people, society or even the world. How sympathetic or amoral they are in this pursuit can vary, the vital thing is that the villain has a specific, concrete goal that is all-important to them, and that you make the readers understand why they find it important.

    (Mind you, they don't have to agree with the villain, just understand them.)

    One of my villains is motivated by love for all human life, and wants to become all-powerful in order to protect absolutely everyone forever. Another one was using time travel to wage a paradox war against destiny, willing to rip time itself apart rather than accept she wasn't in control of her fate. Then there's the one who literally wanted to erase the entire multiverse because she was obsessed with the concept of nothingness to the point where she literally couldn't stand the fact that anything existed at all.

    Sure, these are all just more or less unhinged lunatics, but the point is that they want something and have a reason for wanting it.

    In short: Figure out what your villain wants, make them ruthless and relentless in trying to attain it, and make sure the reader understands why.
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2021
  10. Dreams Of Spaceships

    Dreams Of Spaceships New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2019
    Messages:
    16
    Likes Received:
    8
    Everyone is a hero in their own eyes. Remember that.

    There is something in the world that must be changed. The villain knows how he wants it changed, and truly believes in his heart that it is the right thing to do. But the villain needs power to affect that change, thus, stealing a spell.

    What needs to be changed? Perhaps it has something to do with something that happened to him in his youth. Possibly, it happened to a loved one. Perhaps he was forced from his home and lands, perhaps the law did something unfair to him, perhaps he was kidnapped and experimented upon. Maybe the religious zealots did something terrible to him?

    Whatever it is, just remember: the villain is just trying to make the world a better place.
     
    Bridgetank93 likes this.
  11. Xoic

    Xoic Prognosticator of Arcana Ridiculosum Contributor Blogerator

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2019
    Messages:
    12,458
    Likes Received:
    13,502
    Location:
    Way, way out there
    I believe in many cases this is true, but not all. I agree with Alfred, that "Some people just want to watch the world burn." As a student of psychology I also know it to be true.

    Of course, the really evil ones make less interesting antagonists than the ones with rationalizations, like Thanos.

    How about this video for instance: "Psychopathic Child" AP Psychology

    How about when someone likes to rape or hurt people because it makes them feel good and nothing else does? Or the ones who like to randomly sucker-punch elderly people on the streets to see if they can kill them with one punch? Evil is definitely real.

    One thing I've learned is that certain kinds of childhood trauma (and possibly other factors, like genetics?) can cause the mirror neurons to never grow in or to grow improperly—severely stunted. Mirror neurons are what allow us to have empathy, and if they're damaged or essentially nonexistent we have none. That seems to be one of the biggest factors in psychopathy and sociopathy.
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2021
    Bridgetank93 and Leleluv like this.
  12. Thomas Larmore

    Thomas Larmore Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2019
    Messages:
    314
    Likes Received:
    233
    I have a former friend who is evil. I know this because consistently he does evil things. I have no idea why he acts this way. If I asked him what motivates him to do evil things, he probably couldn't answer me.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 3, 2023
    Xoic likes this.
  13. Xoic

    Xoic Prognosticator of Arcana Ridiculosum Contributor Blogerator

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2019
    Messages:
    12,458
    Likes Received:
    13,502
    Location:
    Way, way out there
    Some don't know why or won't admit that they do, some proudly proclaim it:
    [​IMG]
     
  14. Leleluv

    Leleluv Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2019
    Messages:
    56
    Likes Received:
    36
    Location:
    The edge of flat earth.
    You make some great points, and I wasn't paying attention to what subtopic I was posting in. That last character in particular reminds me of the Lich, while, although part of a cartoon, was probably the most scary cartoon villain I've seen in media.
     
  15. Leleluv

    Leleluv Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2019
    Messages:
    56
    Likes Received:
    36
    Location:
    The edge of flat earth.
    I've actually studied psychopathic behaviors for a character, although not for a villain. They were for a protoganist, and they were supposed be diagnosed with psychopathy specifically through a body defiency like what your'e explaining. I wanted to represent a neutral good, in which the character isn't doing good for goods sake, but in the efforts to coexist as a normal person, to abide by a learned and not internally born value system, and to keep the environment around them in balance. This is all for a book separate from the one highlighted in this discussion.
    I've always seen psychopaths represented in media to be absolute evils, while sociopaths sometimes are given redemption archs. I can't really believe that to be true in reality, although I think psychopaths have greater chances of being evil and better capabilities. Maybe the hero I'll right will be an anti-hero.
     
    Xoic likes this.
  16. Xoic

    Xoic Prognosticator of Arcana Ridiculosum Contributor Blogerator

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2019
    Messages:
    12,458
    Likes Received:
    13,502
    Location:
    Way, way out there
    Prepare for brief infodump:

    Technically of course there are no psychopaths or sociopaths. They both come under the heading of Antisocial Personality Disorder. But I ain't sayin' all that! I'll keep saying Cro Magnon and Brontosaurus, and yes, to me Pluto is a real planet (but a real small one). These names are not only familiar, but they have personality and flair.

    As I understand it (and I don't know a lot about it) the major difference is that psychopaths have no real emotion or empathy while sociopaths have a little of both. A psychopath is cold-headed while a sociopath is hot-hearted. Sounds weird, but helps to remember the difference. A socio will get mean and resentful, hold a grudge, but for a psycho it's all simple transactions, calculated and not personal. And psychos aren't mostly killers, more likely top level executives or CEOs. Their ruthlessness and lack of empathy make it easy to eliminate any threats to climbing the ladder with no remorse.
     
    Seven Crowns likes this.
  17. Leleluv

    Leleluv Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2019
    Messages:
    56
    Likes Received:
    36
    Location:
    The edge of flat earth.
    From what I understand, psychopathy is genetic, while sociopathy is developed through trauma exposure.
     
    Bridgetank93 and Xoic like this.
  18. Havely Forbes

    Havely Forbes New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2021
    Messages:
    18
    Likes Received:
    7
    A army of empty reanimated shells would make for a pretty good workforce in a world that relies on manual labor. Honestly seems fairly reasonable for such a villain to be convinced that this spell could raise the poor to a higher standard of living. Not to mention that in a world with zombies, using the dead to fight the dead results in a lot fewer casualties. Kinda like recycling when you think about it. Their evil motivation might be as simple as believing that with this spell, some groups of people might be worth more dead than alive.
     
    Leleluv likes this.
  19. Xoic

    Xoic Prognosticator of Arcana Ridiculosum Contributor Blogerator

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2019
    Messages:
    12,458
    Likes Received:
    13,502
    Location:
    Way, way out there
    This reminds me of the Body Snatchers movies and The Stepford Wives and Westworld and many similar things. Uses the bad people often come up with for these reanimated shells would include (but not limited to) making yourself a girlfriend and re-creating important politicians who are loyal to your orders to replace the real ones with.

    See Buffybot and the movie Looker, written and I believe directed by Michael Crighton. As always, his stories are near-future sci-fi based closely on real technology that was being developed at the time but that the general public didn't know much if anything about. The premise of Looker is that they could use CGI technology (this was in the early 80's) to make pixel-perfect copies of actors to use in commercials or movies with no need to hire actual actors anymore. And of course it could also be used to make politicians say things they never actually said.
     
    Leleluv likes this.
  20. Stormburn

    Stormburn Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2017
    Messages:
    1,223
    Likes Received:
    1,569
    Location:
    Ann Arbor, MI
    When I was drafting my novel, I had one big bad guy. But, he wasn't working as the villain. Having one guy doing all of those bad things didn't make sense. Though, at the end of the draft I did have several opposing groups and antagonists. So, I broke my big baddie up and gave those roles over to a group of antagonists. That worked. Now, my MC is confronted by several villains and antagonists, and that has led to the story developing in ways that I had not outlined.
     
    Leleluv likes this.
  21. Abciximab

    Abciximab New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2021
    Messages:
    13
    Likes Received:
    16
    Maybe a stupid question, but is it absolutely necessary that the villain wants those spells for himself?
    You said in the OP that magic was banned in this world... and now you have this chick running around raising the dead left and right.
    Wouldn't that already be reason enough for someone to want to stop her?
    Some Charles Bronson-like vigilante who feels the authorities were too soft on spellcasters.
    So he wants to take the spell off her hands because it's clearly dangerous. And while he's at it, burn her or at least cut her tongue out, because you can never be too sure with those pesky spellcasters...
     
    Leleluv likes this.
  22. Fervidor

    Fervidor Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2020
    Messages:
    448
    Likes Received:
    441
    Location:
    Sweden
    Is that from Adventure Time? My brother's a big fan, but I never made it that far into it. (Gave up somewhere in the second season.) I thought it had potential but I can't really stand that random, irreverent style. It just felt like a promising setting that didn't take itself seriously enough.
     
  23. Xoic

    Xoic Prognosticator of Arcana Ridiculosum Contributor Blogerator

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2019
    Messages:
    12,458
    Likes Received:
    13,502
    Location:
    Way, way out there
    I'm not sure I was right about this. I just saw a video and it never mentioned any such difference, though it did say psychopaths are born and sociopaths are created.
     
  24. Leleluv

    Leleluv Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2019
    Messages:
    56
    Likes Received:
    36
    Location:
    The edge of flat earth.
    It is. It was a silly cartoon, but I still remember it for how it developed mature and philosophical themes in the later seasons. The Lich was particularly scary because it took an old, overused trope-a character of evil doing evil for no other reason but to accomplish evil-and revitalized it into something worth fearing.
     
  25. Vanna Heller

    Vanna Heller Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2020
    Messages:
    231
    Likes Received:
    207
    Location:
    New Jersey
    The MC being the cause of the villain's lover's death, possibly?
     
    ThunderAngel likes this.

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice