Extreme Anxiety Due to Publication/Writing Goals

Discussion in 'General Writing' started by Teladan, May 7, 2022.

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  1. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Admin Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    this is what i meant when i said you were making excuses not to publish... you're seriously going to reject a magazine because the editor has a lip ring?

    As i said previously there are a whole strand of conservative magazines, and a strand of christian magazines - with a considerable overlap

    But you'll probably be able to find a reason not to submit to them too. Its not wokeness that is stopping you from having an outlet , it's you.

    (also in ref of self publishing - you have to advertise- but again you can probably find reasons not too try)
     
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  2. Naomasa298

    Naomasa298 HP: 10/190 Status: Confused Contributor

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    Oh I dunno, I reckon it'd be fun to submit a story about an immigrant black, Welsh transgender Muslim social justice activist, working to overthrow a white dominated society to the Daily Mail.
     
  3. Bruce Johnson

    Bruce Johnson Contributor Contributor Contest Winner 2023

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    As a someone that leans libertarian but is fiscally conservative but liberally minded when it comes to individual rights, I dread if I ever get to the point of writing anything I think is worthy of submission anywhere. There's really few groups or spaces I identify with completely and wouldn't disown me if they knew my full worldview.

    But I don't understand your predicament. I could understand the apprehension of submitting if a large percentage of an editorial staff is different from you - there's a higher chance your work won't speak to them since you have different backgrounds and you'll be rejected. But that's no reason not to try and let your work speak for itself.

    But that doesn't even seem like your problem. You seem to think that too many publications are just woke propaganda. That may be the case for some, I haven't read them but just looking at the 'Strange Horizons' website I think you're being a little judgmental. The 'masthead' you talk about includes every one of their staff, over 80 people in total if I counted correctly, and I found 9 instances of 'queer' in the bios. That doesn't indicate the publication is overrun by wokeness or identity politics, it's
    consistent with the general population. It's possible the actual senior staff (most of the bios are first readers) are more liberally minded percentage wise but I don't see anything that really strikes me as being a 'ultra woke'. But to be fair, I haven't read the magazine.

    I was expecting the masthead to have something about "We showcase stories that imagine a world where the patriarchy and eurocentrism..." but I didn't see anything like that (not that that would mean the publication isn't worthy of submitting too).

    I get the feeling that you might be falling into the polarized 'horsehoe' political spectrum where the extremes are closer to each other but just in different ways. So you dislike certain extreme platforms that want to put labels on people so you don't submit to anything that is even a little liberal leaning...because you've labeled them yourself.

    If your fear is being misunderstood, thats not necessarily the publications fault, but the overall knee-jerk population (which I agree is a problem).

    The whole debacle with 'I Sexually Identify as an Attack Helicopter' is a good example about how a lot of people just react without actually reading the story and trying to find a benevolent message.
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2022
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  4. Naomasa298

    Naomasa298 HP: 10/190 Status: Confused Contributor

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    Why does the sexuality of the editorial staff make any difference as far as their professional evaluation of your work is concerned?

    I can think of one publication that first published certain short stories by luminaries such as Stephen King, Arthur C. Clarke and Roald Dahl amongst others. It was a magazine that many conservatives probably wouldn't be seen dead in, let alone would admit to reading. The name of that particular publication?

    Playboy.
     
  5. ruskaya

    ruskaya Contributor Contributor

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    Responding to the OP -- to me it feels like the problem is not in the ideological issue of where to publish. Magazines don't just publish, they draw larger themes and pick up stories they think their audience will enjoy reading. Editors ultimately create interpretations and assemble list of stories to create content. I think readers can see that and understand that. That is the appeal of magazines vs. publishing a book with your own stories.
    I hope I am not being nosy, but it seems to me you are searching some form of control over the process, as a metaphor for possibly needing control over some aspect of your life that you feel is slipping away? I say this because among the long list of obstacles you place between you and a happy publishing moment, there are things that sound like excuses more than real reasons to be resistant to publication in general.

    On a side note, while "anyone can self-publish", being successful at self-publishing is as difficult as going the traditional route. They are just different ways to approaching the same problem: gain a wide readership and recognition. I understand why you feel it is easy, but making a book available online is not all what self-publishing is about.
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2022
  6. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Admin Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    its also notable that the one who mentions decoloniality in her bio is a maylasian - who lives in malaysia... Decolonialism is a rather bigger deal in Maylasia since they are a former colony

    (actually thinking about it Decolionialism is an odd thing for a conservative american to be concerned about since American identity sprang tfrom throwing off the colonial yoke )
     
  7. Robert Musil

    Robert Musil Comparativist Contributor

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    Eh...on the one hand, yes, on the other hand we've done plenty of our own colonizing over the years. Some old-school, like when we took over the Philippines, and also some of the more modern approach to colonialism, ie just installing local governments that will let our corporations exploit them. We've been doing that in Latin America basically since forever.

    I think part of it is also that "decolonization" has taken on a bit of a secondary, more general meaning of just "taking the interests of non-white people into account". Like in a more symbolic or general way than literally granting political independence to far-flung territories.
     
  8. SapereAude

    SapereAude Contributor Contributor

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    Why?

    Do ALL the magazines have the same contractual terms, and do those terms prevent you from EVER publishing your own work in some format other than a periodical?
     
  9. Xoic

    Xoic Prognosticator of Arcana Ridiculosum Contributor Blogerator

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    Teladan is either Scottish or Irish, I don't remember which. He's very ginger though, so I'm leaning toward Irish.
     
  10. X Equestris

    X Equestris Contributor Contributor

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    Most have an exclusivity period post-publication, but they usually aren’t that long. Three months. Six months. A year. I don’t think I’ve ever seen one longer than two years.

    Maybe OP just means in the short term, because you could totally reprint your stories in a self-published collection once the exclusivity period expires.
     
  11. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Admin Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    Good point , i just assumed because of the ranting about Wokery which is more of a US right thing than an issue here in the UK

    Point remains though that a malaysian being concerned about anti colonialism while living in malaysia...an ex British colony isn't all that surprising... the odd thing there is that in malaysia the nationalists are the right wing (the left wing are communists) hardly anyone (aside from the ex pats) is pro colonialism for obvious reasons
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2022
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  12. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Admin Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    I lean right on policing and military and left on education and environment...fiscally i'm kinda centerist... i never had any problem with magazines because i never once thought about the politics of the editorial team... except in as much as i didn't submit to the real extremists.

    The difference though was that i ws writing non fic for the trade press - smallholding, bird watching, woodwork, camera, boats that kind of thing.. rather than spec fic so my articles were pretty politically neutral.

    I did write a few life style columns for a moderate left regional paper... but that was a ghost deal, my brief was just to write in the style of a certain columnist (I'm contractually forbidden from saying who) for a few weeks while they were off doing xyz, so my personal politics didn't come into it
     
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  13. Not the Territory

    Not the Territory Contributor Contributor Contest Winner 2023

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    @Teladan Have you considered that this is the case of the audience, as well? These magazines exist to serve a demographic. Their nature isn't coincidental.

    If there is a relatively large amount of people that have your tastes not only in fiction but... staff appearance/politics/queerness, then this is a great opportunity for you to create your own short story magazine

    If I had to guess though, your desire for association does not match your target demographic. You're not stifled by the publishers, you're 'stifled' by your own potential audience. That's going to require some reconciliation within yourself.
     
  14. Naomasa298

    Naomasa298 HP: 10/190 Status: Confused Contributor

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    Let me ask this - @Teladan, have you read an issue or two of Strange Horizons? Did the stories run counter to your personal political leanings?
     
  15. Teladan

    Teladan Contributor Contributor

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    Honestly, I appreciate all of the engagement so far, but it's bordering on aggravating to suggest I'm not willing to put in the effort and that I'm just making excuses. I would give anything to be able to start submitting again. It was incredibly difficult to withdraw the 20 or so submissions I had out about 4 weeks ago. But I just don't want anything to do with woke politics, queer theory, decoloniality, critical race theory, postmodern destructive nonesense.

    I don't care in the least about diversity. Black, white, whatever. I don't care about the race or nationality of anyone... It's leftists and their pernicious ideas about identity--turning immutable characteristics into the most important part of life--that I disagree with. I write about outsiders a lot of the time, from all walks of life. I was a liberal my entire life up until maybe 5 years ago when everything became absurd.

    The lip ring and weed baseball cap was just one or two people in an overwhelmingly woke team of editors anyway. I might have continued to submit to them if it wasn't for their views. Search The Deadlands magazine and find the team involved
    That's probably the best of the bunch when it comes to fantasy/weird/horror magazines, but that's not saying much.

    For anyone who disagrees or is suspicious about woke ideology, are you really telling me you'd be fine placing a story in one of these magazines? I already regret being in one of them because, for example, they've recently had issues with writers who obnoxiously say they want to make "horror gay AF!" Not only does this sound like something a teenager would say, it's just a flat out admission of being ideologically driven. I disagree with that, whatever the message is.

    Anyway, aside from all these associations issues, there's the fact that there is very little chance of being accepted, no control over the art, or the auxiliary content of the publication, etc.

    I guess it's self pub then.

    EDIT: I haven't even mentioned the fat acceptance "Fatterpunk" and the Antifa anthologies that exist within this whole sphere of writing. I want nothing to do with any of this.
     
  16. Teladan

    Teladan Contributor Contributor

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    Thanks for the considered response.

    I don't mind conflicting views, genuinely. I wouldn't write for nonfic journals if that wasn't the case. It does depend however on the overall ethos and outlook of the publication. Nonfic journals are usually more mature and reasonable than magazines in the fantasy/weird/horror space. The problem is, it's not enough for me anymore to have the story speak for itself. It used to be. I have to say that even one or two very left leaning people is now too much for me, not because I'm incapable of coping with people who disagree with me, but because something has clicked in my brain where it's far more important to just be myself and not have the work be tainted by its being on someone else's platform where they could put anything on there. Yes, I would be more likely to submit to a vaguely centrist or apolitical magazine--and that's the point. I'm the one who wants to avoid politics. Everywhere else is political.
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2022
  17. Teladan

    Teladan Contributor Contributor

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    I said I used to think it was easy and that anyone could do it. Not anymore. If anything, self pub is more difficult. So it's between being associated with woke people and their ideologies or just slaving away on my own collection that very few people will read.
     
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  18. Naomasa298

    Naomasa298 HP: 10/190 Status: Confused Contributor

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    Of course I would.

    I have a keen interest in the colonial wars of the Victorian era. Some of the things done during that period were, to modern eyes, abhorrent, but it was simply the mentality of the time. As an amateur historian, I'm a big believer in moral relativism - what is considered "good" or "bad" in one culture or time period is not necessarily considered so in another culture or time period.

    I'm not going to write about black people in Japan during the 17th century (although there were some) because it's largely anachronistic, and nor am I going to write about the brave Indians fighting off the evil British in the Raj, because that's simply not what I'm interested in. And I'm not going to include a transgender character in a story set in WW1, simply because the concept, as we understand and define it now didn't exist at the time.

    But there's no reason why I wouldn't submit a story with a cast of entirely white males to such a publication, if that's what the setting or time period calls for. If they don't publish it, they don't publish it.

    As it happens, I very rarely make any reference to the ethnicity or sexuality of my characters anyway.
     
  19. Teladan

    Teladan Contributor Contributor

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    I want to make clear that my stories have nothing to do with politics. The last story I wrote was about an architect father taking his botanist wife and their son to a beach in a time ending, inspired by the film Melancholia...

    Sure, the father was grieved to know he was looking for the last time upon a cathedral he drove past, but that's about it. I just want my stories and my image to be unconnected to anything remotely related to politics (most of the time), especially extreme left leaning views.
     
  20. Teladan

    Teladan Contributor Contributor

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    That's the point. The vast, vast majority of spec fic magazines are American and woke. I can provide the evidence, but it'd take a while.

    I'm Scottish, living in England.
     
  21. Teladan

    Teladan Contributor Contributor

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    Because, you see, it's illogical to go through the difficult route of trad publishing in magazines if I dont want to be associated with them, and it's illogical to attempt the even harder route of self pub if I'm going to have stories in magazines anyway. I can only do one of these and I can't decide. It has to be either magazines or self pub and both have huge hurdles. I'm still leaning toward self pub, but it's difficult to get the motivation when I know it'll almost be the same as not having done the work at all...

    Still, I genuinely would rather just have my own collection than to regret being in loads of magazines with people and views I disagree with where they could say anything or do anything at any time I wouldn't like. This has already happened to me for one magazine I'm in. Sounds contradictory given that I'm still seeking to submit to nonfic journals (some of which are actually quite political) but see my comment to Bruce.
     
  22. Teladan

    Teladan Contributor Contributor

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    Reasons not to publish in magazines:
    -Associations with overwhelmingly leftist ideologues
    -Extremely low chance of acceptance
    -No control over cover art or any other element
    -Each new story is just one small disparate thing. It could take ages to accrue a list of stories that represents what you write.
    -The accepted work might only be given a preview
    -Work could eventually be removed if not in print for any reason

    Reasons not to self publish:
    -Almost no readership unless you market extensively and pay for it
    -People don't take self pub seriously and it has a bad image
    -Can't link individual stories easily on my site as it'd all be part of a collection, i.e. most stories wouldn't even be read by prospective readers. At the end of the day all that work results in a small Amazon preview...
     
  23. ruskaya

    ruskaya Contributor Contributor

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    Have you ever thought about creating and publishing your own magazine? Not to submit your own stories, but to create the conditions of publications that you feel are currently missing from the publishing industry. That way you could attract writers and readers who think alike and create a place where people can pursue your same values.

    However, the world and people are political not (only) because they believe in a certain ideology or principles, but by the very nature of what and where they are born into. If you are a white man, then even if you feel you don't subscribe to any particular political ideal about race or gender, by the fact that you are born white you internalize the power structure that whites have created in the world over centuries, whether you like it or not. You can be the most generous person in the world, it is not about how you are at a personal level, but what you represent in the abstract. What I mean is that you can separate yourself from those taking stands, you cannot take yourself off larger discourses. But it seems you want to do the first part, so to me creating a magazine could be a good thing for someone like you. Anyway, it is just a thought.
     
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  24. Teladan

    Teladan Contributor Contributor

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    I don't have any interest in creating an outlet for others if I'm being honest. Why would I? I'm unable to submit to 99.9% of magazines due to the people involved. I simply want to get my work out there and be myself.

    I'll tell you what it is. I think of the people I respect and imagine them discovering my fiction in woke magazines and I get anxious. Not that I would submit to magazines anymore based on all the things I've said, but it is a factor.

    The issue is how far left these people all lean. I'm fine with classical liberals and people who just don't care about politics, but every magazine always has some kind of college activist drive to do this and that. It's tedious and I disagree with it.

    Anyway... This is just one part of the problem. I listed the pros and cons for both publishing routes above. One I forgot to mention is how I don't even want to have my stories between others. Frankly, writing is exceptionally frustrating for people who feel like they truly need to get their stories out into the world before they die but especially for those who don't want to be lumped in with others. I would be mortified if I wrote a sombre story and it was in the same place as some juvenile narrative about taking dick pics in the shower while texting (an example I used before). I am ridiculously neurotic about writing and making progress but I do genuinely feel like I'm hampered by these magazines.
     
  25. Bruce Johnson

    Bruce Johnson Contributor Contributor Contest Winner 2023

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    This is the type of attitude I was talking about when I mentioned the Horseshoe model of political views. Rather than being a semicircle where the extremes are as far apart as any two points along the spectrum, they start getting closer like the bottom of a horseshoe.

    Refusing to submit to a magazine because you are afraid of what your desired audience would think based on the publication it appears, rather than evaluating the actual text of your writing is not far from artists that decide to remove themselves from Spotify because Spotify also hosts Joe Rogan. Yes, some of his guests do have dangerous ideas but shouldn't we hope the populace is smart enough to figure that out themselves?

    I do realized that most people often won't evaluate an idea, or argument, or story by it's content but instead go with what others tell them to think, or what the label or headline says instead of deciding for themselves, but this isn't due to a lack of intelligence but the inability or laziness to use their intelligence and critical thinking. It's due to a lot of the instant gratification and quickly digested media that drives a hive mind and mob mentality in both extremes of the political spectrum.

    But I don't think that's a reason to give up and not try and present your work to as many people as possible. Obviously you want to prioritize your target audience, but I doubt the audiences of the magazines you avoid are as homogeneous or left leaning as you think.

    You have to decide where you draw the line or what the deal breakers are to where you avoid a publication. You seem to have a very broad and nebulous criteria on what publications are off limits to you, and that's your right but it seems somewhat close minded and defeatist to me, to be honest.

    For example, if you disagree with Critical Race Theory I don't think you have to avoid any publication that supports it or includes pieces that support it. But I could understand avoiding a publication that wants the government to ban any discussion of the validity or weaknesses of Critical Race Theory.
     
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