1. B055man

    B055man Member

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    How would an Elven palace evolve under 20 years of Goblin occupation?

    Discussion in 'Setting Development' started by B055man, Mar 14, 2023.

    Without giving specifics away, a seismic event led to goblins achieving victory over the wood elves, which results in them occupying their palace and other settlements within the woods.
    How would the place evolve under 20 years of occupation from an entirely different race?
    Architecture wise, the walls and floor would still be in place. Elven statues however would be smashed or replaced with goblin replacements. Elf memorabilia would either be thrown out or some things like jewelry would be kept by the lead goblin.
     
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  2. Naomasa298

    Naomasa298 HP: 10/190 Status: Confused Contributor

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    That's a difficult question to answer, given that neither elves nor goblins are real.

    It very much depends on how goblins act in your world. In a world where goblins are comparatively unintelligent, a palace is just another big space for them to occupy. They wouldn't care about statues and the like. They'd probably keep the shiny things.

    In one where goblins are more intelligent and heirarchical, they may try to imitate the elves, and the goblin king might wear an elf crown.
     
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  3. J.T. Woody

    J.T. Woody Book Witch Contributor

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    In all fantasy, fantasy races are based on real life. Example: scholars argue that Tolkien's inspiration of his orcs and goblins were due to the climate of fear and hate during wartime. In a more obvious example: Scar and the hyenas in The Lion king were Nazis
    [​IMG]


    Back to your question.... as Nao said, its hard to determine or comment on how your goblins would affect your world, but it would be helpful to understand your parallels. Who/what were your inspirations for your goblins? What is their character? are they advance? do they have specific ideals? How is their military? Who/what is their leader? D the elves fall in line or do they resist the whole 20 years of occupation?
     
  4. w. bogart

    w. bogart Contributor Contributor Blogerator

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    This is too open a question. There is no cultural context for either group. There is a huge gambit of possibilities in the given scenario.

    The gambit could range from a modern drug addict squat in an abandoned building, to attempts at cultural mimicry, or anything in between.
     
  5. B055man

    B055man Member

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    The inspirations for my goblins are Normans/Saxons and LOTR/DnD style goblins. They are thieves and tricksters. They are primitive and before their occupation resided in caves and the darkest parts of the woods. Their ideals are to replace the elves as rulers of the woods which they succeed in doing but the woods are slowly dying. They have a sizeable army and can call for more from nearby settlements. Their leader is half elf, half goblin but hates the elven side and was raised by goblins. A few elves are kept as slaves in the palace and most of the elven population either fled the woods altogether or squatted in caves. There have been attempts made to retake the palace but have failed to materialise.
     
  6. w. bogart

    w. bogart Contributor Contributor Blogerator

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    From this description, I would expect the goblins to be more of a raider culture from a military stand point. So lots of hit and run tactics, and ambushes. With their numbers, any pitched fighting would be more wave tactics, when they can't avoid that type of fight.
     
  7. Mogador

    Mogador Senior Member

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    It sounds like they lack a robust culture of their own to stick to, therefore I suggest they are likely to gradually adopt more and more of the customs of the established Elven culture, language, mores, but infusing that with their own warlike tendancies. For examples see the numerous barbarian conquerors of Egypt, all of whom were absorbed, the Mongols in China, and many many stepps warrior cultures that fell on softer more cultured lowland nations and became just another ruling class. For more inspiration I suggest reading HG Wells's nonfiction Outline of History, specifically his theory of 'communities of will' (your hobgoblins) vs 'communities of obedience' (elves).

    Even when a sophisticated culture conquers another sophisticated culture, unless they go in with a plan to do more than rule and get rich they usually end up adapting to their new land more than their land adapts to them. See: Helenics take Egypt, Normans take England, East India Co. takes India (before the Raj).
     
  8. Le gribouilleur

    Le gribouilleur Active Member

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    Maybe the goblins would vandalize the Elven statues if there are any. And if your goblins prefer less sunlight then maybe they'd use a lot of curtains or they'd lay bricks to make the windows smaller.
     
  9. w. bogart

    w. bogart Contributor Contributor Blogerator

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    That would make sense if you model the goblins on some of the more extreme middle Eastern groups. The way the Taliban and ISIS destroyed historical sites, etc.
     
  10. hmnut

    hmnut Member

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    That's true... except when it's not.

    TC probably has his mind made up, but for others thinking about this, I would suggest a different approach than "what real world parallel is X fantasy race based on" example "Elves are Jewish, Orcs are Nazis, Goblin's are Ottoman, Dwarves are Anglo, Centars are Zulu" or whatever. I say when in doubt DON'T do that... or at a minimum don't start there.

    I would say to answer the TC's question and all questions like it, the starting place should be much more basic. How do Goblins feel about Elves, what is the history, what was the relationship before the conflict, what was the relationship during and after. What is the psychology and sociology of Goblin society. What do Goblins do on Day one of the Occupation, and what are they doing at the end of year 5.

    While real world cultures can be an inspiration for fantasy cultures, they can be so much more. It's worth it to do the leg work, aka world building.
     
  11. J.T. Woody

    J.T. Woody Book Witch Contributor

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    I wasnt telling him to do it or make up a parallel.
    i was asking what his parallels were and asked if his characters were based on races, and gave examples. Because, from the original post, there was really nothing to go on.
     
  12. hmnut

    hmnut Member

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    I wasn't saying you were. I was using your opening line as a jumping off point.
     
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  13. Dagon17

    Dagon17 New Member

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    Currently Reading::
    Ubik by Phillp K. Dick
    I don't know much about the elves, but I imagine they would have very intricate windows. If not intricate ones, maybe just big windows in general.
    In my opinion, that would drive a pretty good contrast with the goblins. The elves bathed in as much light as possible, while the goblins sank below dense canopies and dark caves.
    From there, I would have the goblins board up the large windows. Not only would it add another element of the elf shit for the goblins to destroy, but it also shows that the goblins prefer to have a more secure home than a pretty one.
    On top of that, it would be a very drastic change to the scenery, and them bringing the shadows from their home everywhere they go would probably be a little symbolic in some sense.
    I wouldn't stop there though, I'd have them paint something like runes (or something like them, maybe just a design) over the boards they placed over the windows. That would make it clearer that they have at least some care for art/culture of their own, maybe even have it go with their common religion if you feel like going that route.

    Also, assuming the goblins wouldn't have as strict a hierarchy as the elves do, you could have every goblin below the king share practically every other room meant for living.
    Rooms meant for the lowest guards to whoever is just below the elven king are split up on a first come first serve basis. To supplement the fact that none of them have dedicated rooms, their most valuable belongings should be hidden in little holes chiseled into the walls, and hidden in pits under the floor. Maybe some less clever goblins get into fights over their stashes being discovered, and some new extra supports need to be built due to some structural issues caused by the air being where the stone is supposed to be.

    That's all I got off the top of my head, I love little worldbuilding (I think this is considered worldbuilding) stuff like this, it's so fun it's like being a historian for things that don't exist before you discover them.
     
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