Can't find much info on this online. In my story I've got an international arms shipment going on. There are 6,000 rifles on a cargo plane. Ammunition is included. Each rifle uses a 30-round magazine, and there are 10 magazines per rifle, for a total of 1.8 million individual rounds of ammunition and a magazine total of 60,000. My questions are mainly 1) How are this many rifles packaged for transport? Are they in large crates? How many rifles per crate? How many crates or whatever in total? 2) Same questions for the ammunition and magazines 3) Can all of this fit on an Antonov AN-32 cargo plane, or do I need to go bigger?
Are you talking about something like this? If you search for crate of rifles you can find many similar images. Some would have foam packing material or something to cushion them.
Ammo crates will generally be smaller, something like this: Or like this: Again, a search for shipping ammo crate will show you many options.
Rifles are packed in crates for shipment. AKs seem to come 10 to a crate most often; I know Mosins would come 20 to a crate, so it depends. Assuming the guns are AKs, because there's more info on them, you’d need to transport 600 crates. AK crates seem to come with 40 magazines usually, so that’s four magazines per gun. Ammo would be shipped in separate crates. The AN-32 can accommodate 12 pallets and the cargo hold is 59” high. Maybe you could stack four crates, assuming that these rifle crates are just shy of a foot high. Regardless of the exact dimensions, you're in the ballpark of let's say 96 crates. That's 960 rifles. Even if it were 600 or 1200 rifles, that gives you a pretty good idea. The AN-32 can apparently accommodate a payload of 15432 lb; assuming that a crate is 160 pounds (which I think ought to be fairly accurate), 96 crates comes out to about 15000 pounds. Just within the margins there. AK47 crates | Page 2 | AK Rifles (theakforum.net) Regarding the ammo crates, I found this Bulgarian example, although it was made to hold 5.45x39, not 7.62. The 7.63x39 crates will hold like 1120 or 1260 or 1400 or 1320 rounds or something. Anyway, assuming a similarity of dimensions among ammo crates, it looks like you could expect to get about 54 crates on a pallet (i’m thinking american pallet sizes though, which may be incorrect). Assuming a maximum of 1400 rounds per crate, weighing about 64 pounds (27 per spam can and ten pounds for the crate), you get 75600 rounds per pallet at 3456 pounds. Multiply that by 12 and you end up with 907200 rounds at 41472 pounds. Way too heavy. Ammo is super heavy. It looks like you could carry a maximum of 337478 rounds per flight under our assumed conditions. So a million rounds would be about three trips and 6,000 rifles would be about six and change. And then there’s the question of additional magazines but those aren’t very heavy. That could all be completely wrong, but hopefully it’s in the ballpark. Bulgarian 5.45x39 Ammunition storage Crate, EMPTY, Wood (apexgunparts.com)
Holy crap this is way better of a response than I expected! Thank you so so much! The rifles in question are mostly AK-103 (same family as AK-47) so they'd be packed the same way you describe, with the 7.62 ammo you mentioned. The nation moving the guns also uses C-130 transporters, so I think I'll swap out the Antonov for one of those. Farewell, Soviet plane, I really kind of wanted to use that one but I'd rather the guns come in as big of shipments as possible. That'll also require using a different airfield than I've chosen, but I'm sure I can work something out. Thank you again, very much, for this very great and helpful response!
Using the math above (thanks again so much), I've applied it to the cargo load of a C-130 instead. Did some research on how much a 1000-round case of 7.62 ammo weighs, along with the weights of empty AK magazines. Maximum capacity: 42,000 pounds 1 crate of rifles: 160 pounds 7.62 ammo in a 1000-round case = 42 pounds 1 empty AK magazine = 0.95 pounds Using these numbers I've assembled 6 flights: Flight 1: 262 crates Flight 2: 262 crates Flight 3: 76 crates + 710 cases Flight 4: 1000 cases Flight 5: 90 cases + 40,230 magazines Flight 6: 19,770 magazines The flight time from takeoff to landing (a quick hop across the border) is 21 minutes. That's 4 hours and 12 minutes in the air, total. Now I have more questions. How long would loading and unloading a C130 take? Can all this be done within 24 hours, or will it be a multi-day operation?
From a military stand point there's a lot there that doesn't make sense 1) If your providing nation has C130s then they are presumably either a Nato country or one in the western sphere of influence, so why are they providing AKs rather than M4s or M16A2s? 2) It seems like you are equipping a military or para military force from scratch - hence why you are providing rifles and magazines as well as bullets. That being the case where's all the other kit a military force needs... where are the support weapons, machine guns, mortars, grenades, claymores etc...not to mention, food, water, radios, medical support gear and something to carry it all in and on? 3) if its only a short hop over the border why are you using planes at all rather than a convoy of trucks? 4) the question about how long it takes to unload really depends on where the delivery is being made - delivery at an airbase equipped with load moving equipment will be a lot quicker than on a strip in the middle of the jungle, however if its a normal delivery to an airbase why send 7 C130s rather than something bigger like a C141 or C5A. If it is a rough surface landing why land at all rather than just airdropping the equipment? That aside the quickest option for unloading a C130 is to either fast ramp or hot ramp. On a fast ramp unload you put all the gear on vehicles, the Herc lands and drops its door, the vehicles drive off and the herc raises its ramp and takes off. To hot ramp you put all the gear on mega pallets with wheels or slide plates and the herc lands and keeps rolling, the load masters team pop the straps slide the whole lot out of the back of the moving plane which then take off without ever coming to a full stop.... this isn't optimally safe so its usually only done when hostile fire is an issue 5) your load plan makes no sense - in terms of military logistics you don't separate your weapons from their mags and bullets like that because if you do and one flight gets shot down, crashes, has to turn back or whatever you now have some interesting and expensive paper weights. It would make more sense for each pallet or multi-pallet to hold a number of cases of rifles plus the mags and bullets for them... this also makes distribution to your end user troops a lot more simple after delivery Lastly from a writers point of view you could be massively over thinking it, the reader doesn't necessarily care about how many flights , and what was on what flight, the whole thing might be covered by a paragraph or two that essentially say 'the airforce delivered the weapons'
I can answer the first one at least: multi-nation involvement. The AK-103s are from Venezuela, but they're shipping along with G3s from Mexico onboard Mexican C-130s (to an independent Texas at war with an alternate-reality USA in shambles). Point 2: They're arming a militia that already has some infrastructure in place (Texas State Guard), but they're currently at war and need weapons, ammo, and people to use them now - support kit for developing more units will be brought soon, but after. I'm aware this is a dicey approach, but they were attacked first and don't have the luxury of advance planning. Point 3: I'm not gonna lie, I forgot that was an option. I'm keeping it though. I like it. Point 4: I decided to leave it vague, and just say the first two planes will arrive on day one, fly back and bring more, then bring the remaining two loads on day two. As for point 5, I can rework my chapter a bit to be more realistic in that regard - I did mention a bit about what's being shipped when, but I can change it. Most of this is for my reference, not actually in the chapter. I just wanna make sure it all checks out that way when somebody inevitably dissects it, they won't discover some fatal plot hole.
Makes even less sense militarily I'm afraid for one the Texas state guard will already have US pattern equipment including M4s for their infantry elements - they don't need AKs, if they need anything in terms of light weapons it would be a resuply of 5.56x45 which mexico would be placed to provide them. while you are under attack is the very last time to change from the weapons you've trained with for years to unfamiliar equpiment - especially as the US infantry would also be carrying 5.56 Nato and thus you'd want weapons that enabled you to take ammunition from the enemy dead. Also Texas is one of the most heavily armed places on earth - the average Texan doesn't need Venezuela to provide him with a rifle Secondly Texas is not good terrain for an infantry fight, excepting a certain amount of fibua in the cities, by and large an invasion and its resistance would be an armor and anti armor fight, ie Tanks and Bradleys on open ground... in a battle like that light arms (except maybe sniper rifles) are an irrelevance, the defenders would need anti armor missiles, mines, explosives for IEDs, drones, and AAA systems.
They aren't being given a menu, Venezuela is offering what they have. So is Mexico. Texas needs the guns, they're not gonna refuse the offer. More stuff will come later from other countries once more nations switch away from the US side as that side's crimes become more heinous - but we're not quite there yet. NATO just now switched sides after the President got particularly bold, they'll be sending stuff soon. As for the point of Texas already being heavily armed - yeah, by private civilians. Do you think the average Second Amendment boy would like to be subject to a draft on the basis that he owns a gun? I think not, that may start a revolt within Texas. This is actually a plot point brought up in the story. What they'll do instead is offer registered gun owners an enlistment incentive, but otherwise these rifles are going to new recruits with no largely prior weapons training. And these guns aren't for fighting within Texas. They're already in the works of repelling a US invasion (while US military command splinters at all levels, thus hastening Texan advances), so they don't necessarily need help there. Nah, these guns are for attacking US military targets outside the state which attacked them first; namely in Louisiana.
Here's the thing about the AKs. If Venezuela sends advisors to help train on them, and the Texans recruit those with little to no weapons training to use them, as in a selective draft, then the issue of training is null. Here's the upside: Mexico is a closer ally to Texas politically, as they both oppose the present US regime, but Venezuela is a better source of guns... as long as those guns are AK-103. See, they manufacture them there, at the CAVIM factory. Venezuela can considerably help meet Texan war demand, provided the Texans are trained on the weapons. But Venezuela will ensure that with the aforementioned advisors. This of course leaves the issue of ammunition, but 7.62 isn't exactly uncommon, it's just not as common as 5.56. They'll make do, and as they cut through the South they'll pick up more US weapons and ammo.
@Mars125, do you know how many AR-15s are in Texas already? And if Texas is being invaded, how many of those good ole boys are NOT going to fight? @big soft moose is right. That all does not make sense. I do suggest you try to find Daniel Da Cruz' series of books about a similar type of revolution.
For an independent Texas? Against a President many of them voted for? This whole Texas secession thing wasn't supposed to be serious at first. It was the Governor (a moderate in the ruling party) making a move, a bluff, that he thought would make the President resign. The President called that bluff and it led to all-out war, and lo and behold, a serious secession. Most Texans are confused right now and going with the flow. The more hardline ones, though, that you speak of? They're not going to tolerate being messed with by anybody, not the American government nor the Texan one. They want to stay home and protect their families from the chaos - that's their fight, not what the Governor is doing. I've written over 100 pages about all this, it makes sense if you read it all. EDIT: Also, who cares how many guns they have? This is Mexico and Venezuela offering. What nation at war would refuse guns & ammo from nations reaching out to them?
The Op has a time out for a temper tantrum on his other thread. Im locking this one too until he returns end of the day people here can only offer opinions and advice based on their understanding of the plot which will not be the same as the authors. it’s not compulsory to take any advice you disagree with or otherwise don’t wish to, but it is compulsory to treat those taking time to respond to your threads with courtesy even where you disagree
