If most were as good as Mark Twain... And he had his own publishing company, run by his nephew by marriage. At any rate... I can't disagree that there are some crappy books commercially published - but those are subjectively crappy. Self-published books have their biggest problem not with content but with craft - ie, grammar, spelling, phrasing, coherency - all things that, had they gotten a professional editor (either privately or via a commercial publisher), would typically be taken care of. Again, with the obvious caveat that no book published is going to be perfect in that sense.
True, people who are going to self-publish should make sure to get their work professionally edited before publishing. Although the idea that the editing step comes before the publishing one seems like a no-brainer huh? Least it does to me. I also can't help but notice that we have really strayed off the idea of should self-publishing damage a writer's reputation? Seems like the answer is a big no. (although it's not out of the realm of possibility that if the book doesn't sell well and the publisher gets word of that and then makes a snap judgment on it's possible quality as well as yours without ever reading a word and then puts a ton of conviction on that baseless feeling, it's mathematically possible - it could happen but wouldn't worry about it), but one can look back to the discussion already had. I guess for me the bottom line is more about the should then the could, because people will most likely continue making lazy/ignorant judgements about all members of a group. People could discriminate against you or your work for a ton of reasons(some valid, others not) and that's where backbone and focusing on the quality of your work comes into play. Least for me. Each person just needs to do what's best for them in each case. I think that's going to be the last word for me on this subject unless someone adds something new and relevant, because without it, the issue has been totally exhausted.
Pretty much agree with you there. That's a bit of a generalisation. There's much rubbish out there, granted. But anyone who cares about quality will edit their work, or by all means, hire someone to.
Well, it is a generalization but I think it kinda comes with the territory at this point. I think too many writers get impatient or frustrated and go the SP route before their book is ready. They don't know that much about publishing period, let alone self-publishing. And so they think they can do their own editing, and cover design, and this and that - basically they just get in too big a hurry to jump on the bandwagon. Or they just plain don't have the money to pay for a good editor/cover design/etc. For every writer who accepts the huge responsibilities of self-publishing, I'd be willing to wager there are a hundred who just want their book 'out there'.
Well after first addressing the original poster about the 30 year later scenario, I guess it was both about whether it could and should damage one's reputation as well as the whole self-publishing vs traditional publishing industries. Either way, think we've exhausted both the should and the could as far as usefulness right now, unless new and relevant info is put forward.
Replying to post#64 who wrote... "by 'definite success' do you mean it's selling well and you've made a pile of money on it? if so, how did you market it so successfully?" ... i don't make much money from my writings. I'm a computer internetwork engineer. i probably sold something like 800 books. i expect i'm still in debt from the project, but i'll be honest, this 1 comment made the whole project more valuable to me than perhaps anything else i've ever done... "By Jack Bonner All my life through school, I never read books for subjects or anything like that. Though the past 2 years, I started ready poker books for strategy and other ideas of the game. But then I saw someone say something about a book called, “CARDS” and I thought i would buy to see. I wasnt even sure what is was about. I didn’t even know it was a novel. When I recieved it, i saw that is was a novel and sat it down for a couple of days. Then one day, I opened it just to see what is was like. Right then, the book great control of me and I was very very hooked. I really upset because I was wanting more. I highly recommend this book for people who love holdem and to see a young person succeed then fall. It is my #1 book to have ever read. I hope Mr. Maxwell will continue with these books and hopefully a movie will be made!" when i finished this book, i was certain i hit the bulls-eye on a project despite what anyone might say in the future, so about 50% of my literary aspirations were filled right there. Then when i found the above comment, i no longer cared any more about the professional literary game. this fulfilled my literary dreams. lol i sure hope this wasn't my mom in disguise. lol
I think this is great. You accomplished what you had hoped to do and then some, it seems. But it's also a cautionary thing for people seeking advice. Know what the author means by 'success'. If it fits with your own, you probably want to listen to what they say. But if it doesn't... So I'm glad the question was asked, and even happier that it was answered.
I understand that the best route is to get someone who traditionally publishes to look at your manuscript but with the number of submissions out there how probable is it that a new author's work will get read. I ask this as someone who is still learning how this industry works.
Write the best book you can, then work hard on the query letter so you get the best agent for your book. Those will greatly increase the 'chance' that a commercial publisher will look at your book. But the chance bit is like looking for a job - it depends on how well you present yourself and the current job market. You can do a lot with the former; the latter you can only study and try to adjust to.
not very probable, but still 'possible'... it happens all the time, otherwise we'd never see new authors' books on the bookstore shelves, would we?... but, unlike the job market, it depends not on how well you present yourself, but on how well-written your material is and how well it is presented to agents and editors...
Hello! I am new to this forum and thought I would throw in my two cents (for whatever it is worth). I am in the process of self-publishinging my first novel (Freedom Redux: Escape to Freedom). I did not, nor will I, consider a traditional publisher. Why? Traditional publishing represents the past; their days are numbered. And self publishing can't be equated with low quality writing. Consider John Locke; his Donovan Creed series has hit over 1,200,000 ebook downloads...since January 2011! There are many writers who are now exclusively self publishing, often times only releasing ebooks with no print editions available. They represent the future.
Screw the system in place. I support anything that can further evolve the industry. It's like hollywood, if your an indie film maker you have more freedom and creative range without worrying if the studio will hack your art due to demographics. I'm looking for the middle ground that cannes and sundance gave films. With literature that will come with technology and the power of the free transportation of ideas and art. . . . Until it sells out like the printing press.
i can't see how self-publishing novels is analagous to indie filmmaking and prestigious film festivals...
Agreed. Sorry if this makes me sound like the alternative rock/grunge fan that I am, but well-known 'indie' films usually have the stink of big business behind them. Like Zack Braff's films, and things like I Huckerberry.
Sorry, but "the sky is falling on commercial publishing!" is getting old. John Locke is the exception - as is Amanda Hocking, for whoever wants to toss her name out next. Start looking past the cheerleaders, people - start reading those whose experiences are more typical, or who don't have an axe to grind.
Yeah, this is certainly true. I'm a big fan of self-publishing, having self-published my children's book. And I love to see success stories when they happen. But they are still far from happening for the vast majority of self-published authors, and the traditional publishing houses are still far for irrelevant or outdated. Most of what I see among self-published works is not nearly of high enough quality to have been published traditionally, so it is not surprising to me that the authors who self-publish that sort of work have their noses up in the air about traditional publishers and say things like "they are old and boring, and I've decided not to go that route." Let's be honest - not going that route would likely have been decided for you because your work isn't good enough. Statistically, that's the truth in my view. Are there some wonderful gems in the self-published word? You bet there are. Is most of it crap? Yes.
terribleminds has had several great blogs about self-publishing - and he is self-published. And terribly honest. I have nothing against people wanting to self-publish if they do it with their eyes wide open. I'm just sooooo tired of certain 'gurus' making it into some kind of crusade, taking advantage of new writers' frustrations and fears. I seriously think it's more of an ego trip for them than an effort to 'help'.
I think there's a big difference between traditional self-publishing and the new venues for self-publishing e-books. Traditional self-publishing has the taint of vanity press over it. You had to pay a lot of money to see your book in print, and since most books don't make a profit, it made the self-publisher look vain and foolish. Self-publishing an e-book is so cheap you can do it without taking any real financial risk. You risk your book being a flop, of course, but let's be honest: what're the chances your book would've been a commercial success through a traditional publisher? The success stories in self-publishing may be exceptions - but so are the success stories in traditional publishing. Most traditionally published books don't make a profit, and most traditionally published authors can't live on their writing.
I'm not going to cut and paste an entire article, but you may wish to read this: Self Publishing vs. Traditional Has some interesting points. ~Mordred
I notice (besides the 'traditional' misnomer) that Bransford doesn't really address the advance. And that, just at a quick glance, the comments tend to gloss over them, almost as if they were of little or no consequence. Just be aware of the source(s) of the opinions/advice/presentation and what's left out or glossed over. People on both sides will present their arguments based on what legitimizes their own decisions. Look past those, look at what facts are presented, where they get their information, whether that information can be verified - in other words, don't just accept anyone's opinion for fact. Do your research and base your decisions on what makes sense.
There is something like "traditional self publishing now? I thought it was a relatively new fenomenon... re: the other statement: and self published books are famous for making more profit than traditionally published ones? you're saying self publishing is the most lucrative choice?
