To prologue or not to prologue

Discussion in 'Plot Development' started by ParanormalWriter, Aug 13, 2008.

  1. Cogito

    Cogito Former Mod, Retired Supporter Contributor

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    My point is that if isn't part of the actual story, it doesn't belong. Prologues are generally made as prologues precisely because they don't fit IN the story.
     
  2. shadowwalker

    shadowwalker Contributor Contributor

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    No, they provide insight, pertinent (to the reader) history, something the reader should know but the characters in the main story don't, etc etc. To say it doesn't belong is to say that prologues shouldn't exist. Yet they do, and are used effectively. I just don't believe any part of a story should be arbitrarily dismissed simply because one has read a few examples they didn't like. That's equivalent to saying "I've read many fifth chapters that were just horrible, therefore one should avoid writing fifth chapters whenever possible. Just go from Chapter 4 directly to Chapter 6." See how much sense that makes? A prologue is a viable part of a book when it's written well - just like any other part of the book.
     
  3. Cogito

    Cogito Former Mod, Retired Supporter Contributor

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    That kind of prologue, the history lesson, is the worst, and most common, type of prologue. Let the reader know no more than the principle characters, and you will nearly always be better off.
    They exist. How effective they are is the point under discussion.
    Straw man fallacy. They are not at all equivalent. A fifth chapter falls clearly within the story being told. A prologue is kept separate because it falls outside the actual story. If you believe, as many do, that you should enter the story right away, the prologue has to be pretty special to justify a delayed entry into the story proper.
    The prologue has definite drawbacks that do not apply to other parts of the book. It must be written well to be viable, especially as a first impression for the reader. But whether written well or not, it may still be ill-advised.
     
  4. captken

    captken Member

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    Wow! Mammamia may be reading my mind. I had an introduction for a tale written with no real idea of how to use it. Day before yesterday I did some rewording and called it Chapter 1. I just read Mammamia's comment about an information dump and I'm beginning to have second thoughts or is it third thoughts?

    I'll have to rethink my tale.

    I appreciate the great comments on this site.

    Capt. Ken
     
  5. mammamaia

    mammamaia nit-picker-in-chief Contributor

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    sw... i did say 'rarely'... you seem to have missed that...
     
  6. shadowwalker

    shadowwalker Contributor Contributor

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    No, I saw that - but rarely a good reason *not* to call it chapter one is what I responded to. It either is or is not a prologue. A prologue and chapter one are not interchangeable unless the prologue is not a prologue.

    And Cogito, using Chapter 5 is not a strawman. It's an illustration of how illogical it is to claim that any part of a book is bad or should be avoided simply because you (an individual) have read some bad ones. It also points out how some writers have a personal dislike for prologues and thus offer tainted advice on their usage, versus looking at the prologue in question to determine if it is well-written and adds to the story. It's one of those areas where writing advice devolves into personal preference, which may or may not be logical or sound writing advice.

    If prologues were bad, in and of themselves, then no writer would ever be published who included one. Obviously, this has not happened.
     
  7. Yoshiko

    Yoshiko Contributor Contributor

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    I agree with this. I actually have a bad habit of ignoring prologues altogether and skipping ahead to the first chapter if the author is just using it as an info dump. :redface:
     
  8. evelon

    evelon Active Member

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    This raises the broader question of should a writer stick to a tried, tested and widely accepted format, or should he be willing to step outside the box. The question must also apply to the reader.
     
  9. Pheonix

    Pheonix A Singer of Space Operas and The Fourth Mod of RP Contributor

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    Why is there so much anger against prologues here? If it works it works, if it doesn't it doesn't. The OP's idea sounds good, and I agree that with chapter one, if you kill off a character, then go into chapter two and introduce your actual MC, it's jarring to the reader. With a well developed prologue in that instance, I think it works a lot better. It's like the introductory scene in a movie that runs before the opening credits. (And, yes, I have braced myself for the backlash of using that example.) I think it is a valid storytelling method.

    As for infodumps in prologues, most of the time I skip it then refer back to it later on if there's something that I think might have been explained in there. But usually those kinds of prologues aren't great. Something needs to happen at the beginning of the story to draw the reader in, and if it's just for setting development, that wold work much better in chapter one. But I do think that if the majority of your story is going to be from the point of view of one character, but for some reason you find that you need to write a scene that established some happening that is not from the point of view of your MC, then a prologue is a good way to go.
     
  10. shadowwalker

    shadowwalker Contributor Contributor

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    Yeah, giving some history in the prologue does not mean an infodump, any more than including history in the main story does.

    I really do not understand the mindset of saying "Don't use prologues! Period!". It makes no more sense than any other Absolute Rule in writing.
     
  11. Dagolas

    Dagolas Banned

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    Only write a prologue if it brings something to the story, or elucidates a matter found later on in the story.
     
  12. Cogito

    Cogito Former Mod, Retired Supporter Contributor

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    I certainly never said that. What I said was that the vast majority of stories with prologues would be better without them. I stand by that opinion. Occasionally I encounter a prologue that piques interest concisely. It's a rare occasion.

    Good prologues exist, but poor ones dominate the market. So my recommendation is to scrutinize the impulse to write a prologue carefully, and resist the urge unless you have a damned good reason. Then re-examine that reason critically as your novel takes shape.
     
  13. shadowwalker

    shadowwalker Contributor Contributor

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    Which is what one should do with any part of the story - prologue, chapter, epilogue... The constant wording of opinion as if it were a given, such as "Good prologues exist, but poor ones dominate the market.", is what I object to. With an opinion such as that, it's no wonder you don't find many prologues you like - they have an uphill battle as soon as you open the book.
     
  14. lilmisspants

    lilmisspants New Member

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    Thanks for your feedback Pheonix, I really do appreciate it. I am glad you could understand where I was coming from with my reasons for keeping the Prologue. I think at this point I have decided to go ahead and keep it. It works for me, and I am feeling much more confident about it now. Cheers :)
     
  15. lilmisspants

    lilmisspants New Member

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    Thanks for everyone's feedback. I am happy to hear different view points on the subject, and I think the advice I received will really help me. Cheers :)
     
  16. AGWallace

    AGWallace New Member

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    Good discussion. I wrote a prologue for my current historical fiction novel, but it may end up being cut. It's short, at only 1,800 words, and I'm going to take a hard look at it after the novel is done.

    The action of the prologue takes place 1,000 years before the story begins, and introduces a key element of the plot. I do not believe that the introduction of this element is important, but the element itself is.

    I've also toyed with putting it at the end. What are your thoughts about an epilogue that occurs chronologically before the main action of the story?
     
  17. mammamaia

    mammamaia nit-picker-in-chief Contributor

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    without knowing what it deals with, i can't say if it would make sense to do that or not... but i strongly suspect that it won't... what would be the point of adding it after the story has been told?
     
  18. Cogito

    Cogito Former Mod, Retired Supporter Contributor

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    Agreed. I can't easily imagine a scenario where that would be useful (unless the story involves time travel), but I won't go so far as to dismiss it outright.

    Epilogues usually revisit a later event that is loosely connected with the story (if tightly connected, it is part of the story, so it should be a final chapter instead).
     
  19. Fife

    Fife New Member

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    Are there a few titles in particular that you guys have read that had especially good prologues? I've never written one and (I'm not so sure I will after hearing the negative feedback about them, but) if I ever did, I would like to have some good examples to learn from. Thanks in advance.
     
  20. mummymunt

    mummymunt New Member

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    I only recently became aware of the apparent problem people have with prologues. I've read soooo many books with them in my life that I never really considered whether they had to be there or not. I personally don't care either way whether a book has one or not; it's part of the story, so I read it.
    I do know that as part of a first draft, at least, it's fine to put in anything and everything, as it's fairly common practice to drop the first chapter (or even the first few chapters) of a piece in future revisions. So I would say write your prologue, write your story, let it sit for a while and work on something else so that when you come back to it it will be with fresh eyes. THAT'S when you can decided whether you need it or not. At this early point, it's not worth worrying about too much :)
     
  21. AGWallace

    AGWallace New Member

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    Yep. I agree, and I'm not wasting too many brain cells on my own dilemma. It's written, and at the beginning. I think it will become clear during the final revision whether -- or where -- it belongs or not.

    Having said that, try to imagine this: In the year 300 A.D. an eyewitness writes an account in an obscure dialect, which proves that an extremely important historical event never occurred. The book disappears into history, and a thousand years later -- after everyone has come to believe that the event actually DID occur -- the ancient account is rediscovered.

    The ancient manuscript is stolen by someone who does not realize what it contains. Adventure ensues. At the end of the novel, the ancient account is finally translated and it's a bombshell.

    My "prologue" tells the story of the final days of the eyewitness from 300 A.D. If you read this as a prologue, you know what the bogus ancient event is. If the novel begins with the theft of the manuscript, the reader doesn't know what the manuscript contains -- until the end, when it is finally translated. That's why I'm considering making the prologue into an epilogue. Chronologically, it belongs at the beginning. However, I'm wondering if the effect on the reader would be greater if it occurred at the end of the story.

    This all may be moot, because it might get cut anyway. But I still think it's worth considering...

    Thanks for playing along. :)
     
  22. SuperVenom

    SuperVenom Senior Member

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    I was wondering about a prologue as well so glad this post came up, what i am thinking of doing is not having a 'prologue' anymore but just a simple poem written by a historical character from the story that only mildly sets the scene for the story to run off.
     
  23. mammamaia

    mammamaia nit-picker-in-chief Contributor

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    if you go that route, sv, keep it short... very short...
     
  24. ZarisRedmist

    ZarisRedmist New Member

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    I am actually having the same problem but my book is in first person and I am having trouble deciding wether or not to make it a chapter by itself or make it a prologue. Its a complicated storyline to begin with I am having trouble figuring out if it will confuse the reader or if it wont. For now I am just going to go with it being the first chapter and decide later if it needs to be a prologue or not
     
  25. SuperVenom

    SuperVenom Senior Member

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    Most Definatly. Believe me, not a fan of long ones lol.
     

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