Ever have a brilliant idea only to tell a few people about it who say that can't happen? I've been giving science fiction a go lately. I was telling my lover about a new story idea which my lover thinks is absolutely ridiculous and impossible even for fiction. But it's not just science fiction or my lover's comments. In non-genre fiction I've done a few weird thing before and been discouraged when I'm told things like, It's just not realistic" or, again, "That can't happen." I gave my mentor a short story once that he said wasn't worth our time discussing. He gave me the copy back with several red-pen comments. I think "NO" was the most frequent one. Have you ever been told "that can't happen" about one of your stories or story ideas? Has anyone here had success with one of these kinds of stories? I think it's important for writers to take risks and try new things. So, why have I gotten such responses and what can I learn from them? Is there really anything that can't happen in fiction?
People engage Science Fiction through different lenses and some people don't have a lens that works for it at all. The example I use all the time is the premise of the film Her. It's not that I think A.I. is something that could never happen, I just think it's something that the average citizen will never really be allowed to own, not in the way it's shown in the film, as a person that's indistinguishable from a flesh-human, and which continues to have its own life, desires, goals, and most importantly, actions, even when you're not engaging it. What we call A.I. today isn't remotely like that. But that film isn't about "what if you could buy an A.I. at the mall like the latest iPhone". It's about human relationships. That's what the film is about. It's not about Samantha being an uber-cool A.I. It's about how terribly lost most people are when they engage other humans. But there will always be people who can't look under the surface story. So, I would add my own question to your question: The thing that people are telling you is ridiculous, does it serve a different purpose in the story than the obvious? If it's clearly there to talk about something else, I'm totally able to engage the impossible because then I know it's not really about that thing's plausibility. That thing is just a lens to talk about something else. If there is no something else, then I would have nowhere left but to give an answer similar to what you mention. So....?
Thanks, @Wreybies. Thinking about it the way you said it really helps. And, yes, my ridiculous and impossible parts of my story are often some sort of comment about or reflection of humanity and the world. I guess all stories do that. But if people question these things, am I doing it wrong or just not pulling it off? I'm worried that it's not them, that it's me. I told my lover my new science fiction story is going to be a satire when the plausibility was called into question. My lover still says, "That can't happen."
Shy hello from me, because I'm new (Autocorrect seems to think the word "new" is a noun or needs to have a capital N, so apologies if I miss one). I was actually the one toying with a futuristic idea that I thought was "impossible for this time, but not so much in the future", only to hand it over to my mum's partner, who does read sci-fy, and who said it was certainly plausible because we have that kind of technology already. Oops. Oh well . . . My theory is, if it's sci-fi, who knows what'll be possible in the future, so I'd be tempted to set it at some point in the future and let your imagination run wild. I would also be tempted to get another mentor, because "No!" Is not really constructive criticism.
I think there are categories of fiction that sort of celebrate impossibilities, and some of these are quite "literary" - magical realism, whatever the hell we're calling Vonegut, etc. But if your readers are thinking about your work in those terms, I'd say you've either got the wrong readers or you aren't presenting the impossibilities in a compelling enough way. I think there needs to be internal consistency in a story, even if that consistency is just "anything can happen in this world". If I read most of a story with the understanding that there are limits and characters have to act within those limits, then I won't be too impressed if all of a sudden the limits are ignored. If I read most of a story in which there are no limits and anything is possible, then I won't be too impressed if suddenly things are limited. In both cases, it feels like the author's cheating. So... if you're only getting the responses from one reader, I'd say you should consider the possibility that the person is just not the right audience. But if you're getting it from multiple people, maybe you want to look at how you're writing.
Thanks, @BayView. My lover's recent comment was on my new idea. It's for a short story that I will probably write over the weekend if I can get passed that this can't happen. So, no one has read that story. But this is a comment similar to a few I have received before like the ones I mention in my OP. And it's not just science fiction. I've gotten this comment on some of my literary works. Although, not every weird or impossible story I write gets this reaction. I must be more compelling or something at certain times and not so much in others. I guess my real question is (and there is probably no answer for it) how do I make my writing and stories compelling enough for anything to happen? Free drinks for anyone who can fix that for me.
Are you having just one unrealistic thing per story? I think it's easier, as a reader, to accept the unexpected when I have some warning. A lot of magical realism kind of builds up to the BIG magic... lots of little suggestions and hints before something incontrovertibly unreal. Are you doing that?
Without reading your work, it's hard to say. Would you post something up in the Workshop? 'Cause then we could perhaps analyse why certain things seem implausible, and explain why I, as the reader, might find something implausible. Once you start seeing a trend over multiple stories where the implausibility problem exists, then maybe you can resolve the problem?
@Mckk I'm really not into posting work in an online forum. But I think my question was aimed more at having a discussion rather than specific help on a given story. Thanks for the comments, everyone.
Well, think if this will work for you: Take that impossible story and predict what a reader might say about why it is impossible. Then, add in a character or use an existing character to say the same thing in the story itself. Then, resolve that conflict. That way, you make the argument for your reader bringing the reader to your side, and then put them on the roller-coaster ride. Do you think that will work?
I've been writing some main characters that are LGBT. My last book has a f/f romance, and I wrote up a gender neutral character for a novel I'm outlining for NANO. I'm not trying to tell stories about LGBT experience--just have characters who are those things. It rubs some people the wrong way since I'm straight, but the vast majority of people have been good with it so, whatever. I have had two or three people tell me hostility not to, or to suggest I should use a female name and front like a woman, but I'm not about that. Even if I use a pen name, it'll be a male name, because I don't think it would be fair to let readers misunderstand what I am.
Not yet. Not even my shape shifting alien in another work got an eye bat at group. And no one thought the short story about a lonely abandoned AI recreating the society that left, was far fetched. Though they were all machines and not biologic in any way. Only minor thing of noting is that in my first novel and sequel WIP is it is found to be kinda funny that they still use pens and paper in the 28th century. Guess it is more believable that they use projectile based weapons, as opposed to 'lasers'. (I don't get that minor gripe). Basically as the rules and logic of the universe are established, then you can write what you want as long as it does not contradict with those two established things. Look at all the crazy shit WH40K gets away with. It makes Star Wars seem damn near realistic in comparison. Looking mainly at the Orks on this one. All you need is enough Orks to believe your cobbled together junk heap will work, and it will work. That is some extremely contrived bit of bullshit, and yet it is accepeted based upon the laws and logic of that enormous ridiculous universes. But overall the entire Sci-Fi/Fantasy based series has some pretty wild and insane shit that works within the continuity. Granted they explain how these insane principals work within the universe.
Thanks for the replies. Do you guys think it's harder to pull off the impossible if your story is set of earth? Genre or no genre I like to get weird sometimes. And, for the most part, I like to ground there stories right here in the world we all live in. I want to be able to do things that can't or never could happen. Why not? It's fiction. @Cave Troll -- How are you pulling these things off in your writing? I don't know if that's a question you can answer, but I feel like you might be onto something that I'm missing somehow. Maybe I'm not sure how to introduce my logic into a story. I don't want to say, "This is what I can do because I made this sh!t up and this is how it works," but I kind of want to say that in a way that will make my ridiculous ideas seem more unique and surprising than ridiculous. @John Calligan -- If you have those kinds of characters and are telling a story, how can it not be, at least in part, about their experiences? I don't see a problem with you writing those or any other type of character in your stories, but I would embrace the idea that you are bringing their experiences to life and the characters with their experiences could/should be relatable and reflective of society. Maybe I'm talking BS. But I don't think you need to put a woman's name on your book or use a pen name. Diversity is something the publishing world is seeking. If you can pull it off, I imagine you'll have some luck with that. I'm thinking general or literary fiction is what you'r writing. I have no idea what goes on in the erotica world. Would you say your story has been difficult to write because you're you're a straight white man? I don't think bringing diversity into the literary world needs to happen at the cost of shutting anyone out. I believe there is room at the top for everyone. But I do think writers of all races, genders, sexualities, ages, disabilities have important things to say. We need to listen to those stories, and if you know the LGBTQ community well enough to add more diversity into your own writing, that's great. Anyone/Everyone -- Would you guys say your writing is a bit weird? My writing can often go in that direction. Even my more "normal" and non-genre stuff can be quite quirky. It's just the ideas I come up can get crazy, but sometimes this happens in the quietest way possible, meaning the weird part is addressed subtly as "normal" for this world. I just kind of write, thinking it will be acceptable and believable within the confines of the story, but that's not always the case.
I don't think being a straight white man makes writing LGBT characters especially more difficult than anything else I had to learn about. The great struggle for me is writing in close third at all, rather than the plot driven third person omniscient that comes naturally to me. I write science fiction/fantasy, and having a major relationship subplot isn't that common in the genre. Usually you have a little bit of sexual tension, with a kiss to seal the deal right at the end, and then a breakup before the next book starts. I was shooting for something closer to the Romance genre, so I had to read a lot of Romance books and figure out what was going on. Relationships are handled very differently in Romance than in SFF / Thrillers / Crime. Art should come first, and people should be true to their art. And a lot of art offends a lot of people. But when I say I want to be true to what I want to write, I don't want to offend people or step on their toes over things that aren't critical for my bit. There are some stories that a lot of LGBT people share: coming out, confronting homophobia, hate crime and violence, and so on. One of the main reasons people write is to get things off their chest, be heard, share their story. While this sentiment is in no way universal, there are people who think that a straight person writing a coming out story about someone persecuted by religious neighbors or losing their job over their way of life stinks of misery tourism and exploitation. Some people think that there are a limited number of slots in popular culture for that story to get told, and they'd rather someone who lived it have a chance to tell it. If that's fair or not, I don't know. People in the LGBT community come down on both sides of it, but I don't need to confront it to tell the fantasy stories I want to tell, so I'm not going to. I feel like the place where someone like me can be effective / useful is in the normalization of those relationships by including characters, major and minor, in settings where their sexuality isn't the main issue and where their characters can be well developed in the other ways characters should be. What if the gender neutral character's story is about learning sword fighting and stealing a magic stone from a king to bring his family farm back to life? That's cool, eh? Some gender neutral kid in real life that likes fantasy will appreciate that sort of representation. What if a gay couple just stays a gay couple while fighting dragons? Unconscious use of discredited tropes could have been a problem for me. Two of my favorite shows are Buffy the Vampire Slayer and The 100. I honestly don't remember Buffy that well, but I did watch a lot of it. Both shows have a subplot that sucks for lesbians and are the main examples of the "Bury Your Gays" trope. The leading woman gets into a f/f relationship, they sleep together, and shortly after a stray bullet not meant for anyone flies in through the window like the hand of god and kills the love interest. When those things happened, I don't know that I was put off by them, because why would I be? When it happened in the 100, I was like, "oh man, Clark is going to be salty, I hope she gets some sweet revenge." But if that relationship was the only representation someone has, that shit would hurt. Especially when it has the appearance of being a moral statement on what god thinks of their relationship. It would have been easy for me to repeat those scenes in my own writing, because that's what we do, we repeat tropes when we don't examine them. If a trope doesn't relate to your own life, you have scarcely little cause for examining it. So, when I realized I was going to be writing a f/f relationship, I started watching and reading all the blogs and vlogs about LGBT representation, and all the T.V. Tropes pages about LGBT tropes, and sort of educated myself on where the culture is at and how people are feeling about things. A lot of it is contested ground, even in the LGBT community, but a lot of it isn't, and a lot of it can be avoided without compromising what I feel like my art is. But I only know that because I looked into it. Anyway, that's my story.
IDK. I just try concepts and ideas, and then see what other's think. Show those insane things, and where applicable explain how things work. Just don't do a lot of explaining, but more showing. And when you have to explain something try to put it in dialogue to kinda hide the fact that you are explaining something. It seems putting characterization to a mini info-dump helps to avert the fact that you're info-dumping. Use in moderation.
Lol, in my WIP, I have 1 gay couple, yet some of my family seem to assume it's full of LGTB, and one reader in particular seems to be keen for "some gay action" I'm mindful that another of my readers probably won't want to read that, so I'm keeping it toned down, so any sexual intercourse between them is implied.
IDK, you could probably go for it if you wanted to. My favorite book is, "The Song of Achilles" and it has a decent amount of sex between Achilles and his partner. Almost everyone loves that book. It still has broad appeal.
Your job as a writer is to invent things and convince people they are real, so that the readers will feel for the characters, right? In order to get those feels your brain needs to believe it's all real. You don't get scared when Tom and Jerry hit each other with baseball bats, but you may cry when Dobby the house elf dies in "Harry Potter", despite that you know that house elves are completely an invented thing and no more real than cartoon cats and mouses. But the Dobby thing was done for real, you were supposed to believe and have feels there. So, if somebody tells you "that's not real", it only means you haven't done your job well and to that person it didn't seem real, whatever you were describing. A good writer can make any impossible situation seem real and believable. It's just the way you write about it. Of course, take into consideration that not every reader cried for Dobby, too. But that doesn't cancel the whole thing. In most cases the "it's not real" problem stems from the writing, your ability to create suspension of disbelief, involve the reader and all that.
