1. Whitepaws

    Whitepaws Member

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    a terrible workshop

    Discussion in 'The Lounge' started by Whitepaws, Dec 6, 2019.

    I enrolled in a workshop that was quite expensive, thinking it would be thorough and top notch. It turns out the tutor is barely there and hasn’t given detailed feedback after 3 months. The feedback they were meant to give got moved to the end of the course. In fact, all feedback seems to be at the latter half of the course. We rely on peer critique...but might as well pay a writing coach for half the price of this course and get professional feedback. They’re taking the piss.

    There are other issues...like they’ve lessened the number of words per lesson to work on and submit in some of the lessons. One person dropped out at the start...not sure why but maybe because they didn’t get peer feedback. One other student had to beg for feedback because everyone ignored her. It’s really horrible.

    I made a complaint, and asked for my money back but they refuse to acknowledge the issues and suggested I carry on. In fact, they tried to make it sound as though I was nervous about finishing the class which is why I was complaining. Also, they tried to make it seem like getting worse is actually a sign of getting better. What!!! This isn't some healing modality class!

    Any suggestions?
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2019
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  2. Naomasa298

    Naomasa298 HP: 10/190 Status: Confused Contributor

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    If you paid for it on credit card, charge it back.

    Or threaten to complain to Trading Standards/the Better Business Bureau.
     
  3. Whitepaws

    Whitepaws Member

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    I wish we had those standards bodies here in the UK :(

    yeah, I can get the cc company to help fight this.
     
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  4. EFMingo

    EFMingo A Modern Dinosaur Supporter Contributor

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    Was just about to suggest this. BBB and a class action lawsuit are needed for all these groups preying on up and coming writers. I have a special personal hatred for them. Sorry this happened to you. Wish I k we UK laws so I could help.
     
  5. Naomasa298

    Naomasa298 HP: 10/190 Status: Confused Contributor

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    We do - that's what Trading Standards is. You can find your local office here:
    https://www.gov.uk/find-local-trading-standards-office
     
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  6. Whitepaws

    Whitepaws Member

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    And the course director tried to play the ‘we have access to agents’ card! As though that would shut me up. The whole thing left a bad taste in my mouth.

    They don’t realise we have access to a whole indie market as well as agents! hmph!
     
  7. Whitepaws

    Whitepaws Member

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    OMG...thank you! Never knew (they don’t advertise it too loud, lol)
     
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  8. Naomasa298

    Naomasa298 HP: 10/190 Status: Confused Contributor

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    No doubt those agents charge a fee...
     
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  9. EFMingo

    EFMingo A Modern Dinosaur Supporter Contributor

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    I bet the money goes to the same place...
     
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  10. Whitepaws

    Whitepaws Member

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    High-five on that one.
     
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  11. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Admin Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    you could also go to the citizens advice bureau for advice, but really credit card company is the best call - you'll need to evidence in objective terms how the service provided differs from what you paid for.
     
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  12. Whitepaws

    Whitepaws Member

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    Yes, breach of contract stuff...

    Changes to number of words to submit, changes to tutor detailed feedback. The most recent is that the original course materials asked for a full scene to be submitted and then right before the submission to get it critiqued, they limited it to no more than 1,000 words. I argued that 1,000 words would not encompass the fully developed scene according to the lesson. One other person in the class...actually 2 people....made that comment too. We had to cut scenes in half.

    That’s a good start, you think?
     
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  13. Whitepaws

    Whitepaws Member

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    [
     
  14. Some Guy

    Some Guy Manguage Langler Supporter Contributor

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    "Follow the money."
     
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  15. A.M.P.

    A.M.P. People Buy My Books for the Bio Photo Contributor

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    Unless I am mistaken, isn't the BBB a non-government private enterprise that mostly just sells their "seals of approval" or whatever you'd call it?
    It's not a legitimate supervisory body.
     
  16. Catrin Lewis

    Catrin Lewis Contributor Contributor Contest Winner 2023 Community Volunteer

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    It can come down to that. It's more like a ratings group, they don't have any sanctioning power.

    I believe in case like this, in the U.S., you'd report the matter to your state's attorney general. Though I don't think it would be their job to get the money back, not unless civil charges were brought and damages awarded. It'd be more a matter of getting the scammers shut down.

    Definitely second the idea of the credit card charge-back. @Whitepaws, it seems to me that your biggest argument will be that you were given to expect regular professional feedback all through the course and instead the tutor has put it on the students to mentor each other. The credit card people will be clueless, most of them, about word counts. You might even get the rebuttal that the tutor has the right to make you keep submissions brief, to force you to write better and more concisely; i.e., that you've paid for the tutor's professional advice and that's what he's giving. (Not that they'd be able to put it that way, but you know what I mean.) I'd stick with the fact that you're getting little or no tutoring at all.
     
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  17. Naomasa298

    Naomasa298 HP: 10/190 Status: Confused Contributor

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    In the UK though, Trading Standards is a government body, with prosecution powers.

    Write to the course provider, setting out clearly your complaint and the redress you would like. Tell them that if they refuse, you will have no option but to make a complaint to Trading Standards. If they then apply any sanctions to you, such as kicking you off the course, you will be in a very strong position to go to the credit card company - AND you can still go to Trading Standards.
     
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  18. Whitepaws

    Whitepaws Member

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    @Catrin Lewis, yes, they are relying on the students mentoring each other. Never seen anything like it. I’ve taken a few workshops and this one has been the worst in terms of tutor activity, word count and depth of material.

    I ended up gathering the course paperwork to analyse and see if maybe I was the one who was being overly picky. It was such a great exercise because I saw their patterns clearly in the cold light of day. They are tweaking their own course as they go along (and not for the better).

    I submitted my docs to the cc company. They’ll get back to me in a few days once they assess whether I have a case.
     
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  19. Whitepaws

    Whitepaws Member

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    My first course of action was to make a complaint to the provider, to see if something could be improved. I got a whole lot of nothing. They even alluded to me being insecure over my manuscript. Unbelievable. The tutor was meant to contact me and still hasn’t after 3 days. Doesn’t surprise me one bit because she’s been minimal the whole way through.

    It’s in the hands of the cc company now. We shall see.
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2019
  20. Whitepaws

    Whitepaws Member

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    Follow up. The credit card company under section 75 dismissed the claim, without giving any reason.

    I made a complaint to the course director and tutor...but nothing changed there either, apart from a minor offer to read a chapter by chapter outline.

    The course is a total waste of money. Might as well just throw your money away!

    You don’t get anything you can’t get for a fraction of the cost somewhere else. Even hiring a professional coach to give you a full MS assessment will cost you less than this basic beginner’s workshop parading as a professional, advanced course.

    I would like to warn aspiring writers about this workshop so they don’t make the same mistake I made. The reason I don’t just put the name on this open board is because I’m still enrolled and I’ve seen their editors on different writing forums so if I put the course here now, and they do a search, it’ll pop up. So, if you want to know the course send me a PM and I’ll let you know. At least my experience will have been for something.
     
  21. jannert

    jannert Retired Mod Supporter Contributor

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    @Naomasa298 ' s suggestion about the Trading Standards option in the UK is perfect.

    If it were me, I'd write to your cheating company, explain what they've done wrong, what you expect as redress ...and send a cc copy of the letter to Trading Standards as well. And explain in the letter that if you don't get some sort of acceptable response, you will be opening a case with Trading Standards. This way they'll know you mean business, and Trading Standards will be on the alert.

    If you can get other people on the course to join with you on this, so much the better.
     
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  22. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Admin Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    also go back to your credit card company and escalate the sect 75 matter - they are required to give you a reason
     
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  23. Whitepaws

    Whitepaws Member

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    I’ve started the official disputes process with Trading Standards. I have a fight on my hands. They’ve (the Workshop) already switched negotiator 3 times in the last month. Wish me well!
     
  24. Cave Troll

    Cave Troll It's Coffee O'clock everywhere. Contributor

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    I hope you get that all cleared up, cause that really sucks.
     
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  25. frigocc

    frigocc Contributor Contributor

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    Subbing to see how it turns out
     
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