So, thanks to an entirely different thread about character reaction to an abortion kept secret from the father, a discussion on abortion started and the consensus was: let's move it to the debate room. So here it is @ChickenFreak @BayView The thing I was discussing over on the other thread was: Should a man have a choice in the matter of whether a woman should abort their child? And my view was - and this is just an idea that's not been through any discussion or tests - perhaps abortion should only be allowed if both present parent agree upon it. ("present" would be crucial here - I don't think a single woman or a victim of rape should be forced to keep a child just because the man isn't present) Anyway, that's a HUGE "perhaps". @BayView - on the other thread you say you do not accept my premise that I regard the foetus as a child. In this regard, I think it's very personal and tied up with various other beliefs that goes beyond whatever science and biological development might reveal. In any case, feel free to expand here. For me, what is technically true and what is emotionally, personally true are not necessarily the same things - I accept that technically a foetus might not be "human", however I also see that in real life, when a woman has a miscarriage, nobody says to her, "Oh it's just a lump of cells. Get over it." In those cases, the woman is distraught because to her, and to the father if he's present, they've lost a child. That is their personal, emotional truth, and I guess I personally place a higher importance on this. And if my impressions were correct (they could be wrong, so feel free to correct me), in general woman feel guilty and full of grief after abortions and usually attribute to future misfortunes regarding pregnancies to some sort of "punishment" because of the abortion that they had. Let me clarify - I do NOT believe the misfortunes a woman may have is any kind of divine punishment from God. However, it is my understanding that many women interpret it that way, as though they're being punished for what they did. All these emotional reactions point me to the belief that the foetus is indeed a child, and that whatever the technicalities are scientifically speaking are irrelevant. (irrelevant is a strong word... hmm, well, feel free to discuss that too!) Anyway... let the discussion commence! As a disclaimer: I'll admit now I'm a Christian who believes abortion facilities SHOULD be available for every woman to make her own choice. However, I do see abortions as essentially tragedies - sometimes necessary, but nonetheless tragic. While I see abortions as essentially a sad thing, I do not see the motivation behind why women might abort to be so black and white, and this is why I would never condemn someone for an abortion, no matter how I see it. So all my views will, of course, be coloured by this. This is just so you understand where I'm speaking from.