1. trevorD

    trevorD Senior Member

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    That thin line bw clever and cheese

    Discussion in 'Descriptive Development' started by trevorD, Jul 26, 2022.

    I'm reading They Thirst, by Robert McCammon, which appears on many lists as an all-time top vampire book. Granted, he admits openly that this was one of his early works that he held from publication as it wasn't up to what he considered to be his standards. As I'm reading it, I'm constantly rolling my eyes at things that struck me as cheese. We're all trying to tell a story that's artistic and entertaining, slipping in words and actions that set our works apart from others. Such slop comes out of the horror genre, however, that it's hard not to roll your eyes..

    For example, two bikers we are just introduced to pull over at a roadside diner and decide to shoot the place up. Character development for later on? OK. One of them blows this guys brains out all over the back wall. White matter gloms onto the wallpaper and rolls down toward the baseboard like a wet octopus. Really, bro? I write horror and feel the need to add gore once in a while, but come on.

    Furthermore, the guy's use of descriptive elements is way over the top. Every sound seemed to "rip through the silence" and every injury "spurted bright red blood". Really? I think as authors you get a couple of superlatives per novel, maybe in key situations, but going there repeatedly shows a lack of restraint. Slow your roll, bro.

    Finally, not to divulge spoilers, but at the end he has the MC and the BG square off. The no-win scenario he paints is resolved with the aid of a freakish 1-1,000,000 Southern California earthquake that reeks of ex deus machina. Ok, no offense, but I take books with ex deus machina endings and use them to wipe my rear. Good lord.

    So there you have it - cheese, cheese, and more cheese. If you're going to write a book, please try and cut the cheese.
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2022
  2. Homer Potvin

    Homer Potvin A tombstone hand and a graveyard mind Staff Supporter Contributor

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    Difference between good cheese and bad cheese is if the piece is self-aware of its cheesiness. Then it's ironic and can be quite charming. Of course, if a piece is cheesey and tries to take itself seriously, it can also be awesome in a bad way. Or bad in an awesome way. It's easier to site movies, but Face/Off and Bram Stoker's Dracula immediately leap to mind. Awesome, terrible movies... and just when you think they can't top themselves, they find a new level. I respect that.
     
  3. Steerpike

    Steerpike Felis amatus Contributor

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    I think I've only ever read Swan Song by McCammon. Sounds like I didn't miss out with this one!
     
  4. Xoic

    Xoic Prognosticator of Arcana Ridiculosum Contributor Blogerator

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    What is bw clever? Can't figure that one out.*

    It sounds like it was one of his learning stories. Maybe he just let himself go way over the line. I believe it's fine to do that—push past the boundaries in your learning stages in order to find where the boundaries are. Or maybe he just needed to get that kind of stuff out of his system so he could write later without feeling the need to cheese it up. A purging if you will.

    * Oh, I see, it's supposed to mean between.
     
  5. trevorD

    trevorD Senior Member

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    Ha! Face Off was one of the worst movies I've ever seen. Ok, Battlefield Earth and Waterworld were worse, but that one was really bad. Again, if you search for the top titles in the vampire genre, that stinker is listed alongside gems such as Fevre Dream, Dracula, Interview with a Vampire, and Salem's Lot. By the way, I understand a new Salem's Lot is due out April, 2023! Let's hope it's really really good!
     
  6. Thomas Larmore

    Thomas Larmore Senior Member

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    If you read a book all the way to the end, the author has accomplished what he set out to do even if you thought it was cheese.
     
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  7. Thomas Larmore

    Thomas Larmore Senior Member

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    If you read a book all the way to the end, the author has accomplished what he set out to do even if you thought it was cheese.
     
  8. Not the Territory

    Not the Territory Contributor Contributor Contest Winner 2023

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    Usually you find the cheese in the second draft, darlings and all.

    Man I loved Face Off. I think because no matter how crazy it got, it always took itself seriously. In another word, it was earnest.

    I usually do b/t when abbreviating between, but that can be confusing too.
     
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  9. Xoic

    Xoic Prognosticator of Arcana Ridiculosum Contributor Blogerator

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    Lol yep—looks like a half-assed attempt at by the way. :p
     
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  10. Homer Potvin

    Homer Potvin A tombstone hand and a graveyard mind Staff Supporter Contributor

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    Yeah. I could write a graduate thesis on the ridiculousness of Face/Off. The whole thing would have fallen apart if it stopped taking itself seriously for a nanosecond, but it remarkably avoids that. Say what you want about John Woo, but he always knows exactly what he's doing.
     
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  11. trevorD

    trevorD Senior Member

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    Ha, I wasn't sure if i had enough characters left to write out the full word.
     
  12. deadrats

    deadrats Contributor Contributor

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    I often question if I'm being clever or cliche in my writing. It's a hard call sometimes. Do others struggle with this? How3 do you know if you're actually being clever?
     
  13. Naomasa298

    Naomasa298 HP: 10/190 Status: Confused Contributor

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    They Thirst would be bad cheese. We Suck would be good cheese.
     

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