Advice.

Good friends are hard to find. The cowards who talk behind your back, the jerks that try to f*ck with you, the liars that spread rumors, the ones who betray you...well they are the other people that are araound you nearly every day. It does not end, sad to say. In fact, it seems that putting up with that sort of negetiveness comes in heaps for people who actually are good people. You could be Queen of the World, and make a real Heaven on Earth, and there still will be people doing the same dumb crap. You are a preacher's daughter, right? - What did they do to that guy sent here to save the world 2,000 years ago?

To be honest, you can be one of 'em. Or you can cut them out of your circle and do something seriously important for yourself and those you love. I doubt that most of those other people have the heart or mind to try something like that themsleves.

But remember, good friends are hard to find. It's all up to you, in the end though.

 

I'm annoyed you called her a slut!

What, you Ms. Perfect or something? Just what exactly is a slut? It's the sex thing right? And guys? Oh, they're just cool when they do it. More the merrier for them I guess. Quick to judge her too considering you just a week into high school. Wonder how she feels being called a slut? Wonder why she was the first one there to be friendly with you. Bet it bothers her. Oh, but don't mess up your own precious reputation by being her friend. Girls gotta' do I suppose. No big deal girls are utterly saturated throughout their entire waking existence with images of sexuality in print, song, cinema, bill-boards, friends, everywhere and when they finally give in: slut. But never mind how she feels about it; she's "tainted" and that's all that matters isn't it?

It's just another example of our unfair, cruel, ignorant, and hypocritical culture sending mixed messages to an ill-prepared girl-world.

 

Excuse me? Maybe you should read the rest of the thread. Who are you that you think you can call me a hypocrit?

She comes and tells me all about the multiple guys she has slept with, therefore, giving me permission to consider her a hoe. And she looks at me weird, so she is bi. So please do a little research before you judge me. Yeah, she's nice, but she also is a hooker. Hmm, do I wanna hang out with her? No. I don't. And yeah, I do care about my reputation, I dont want to be called a what she is every freaking day. Excuse me for wanting to have a pleasant four years.

So, please dont insult me if you have no idea what your talking about.

 

Waitaminute. A hooker, too? Or are you using that as a synonym for slut?

I don't know, Phatie. I'm not saying you have to approve of her activities, but wasn't she at one point someone you consiudered a friend? Have you no compassion left for her at all?

What has she done that injures you? And I don't mean what others have done to you for associating with her.

Do you approve of how the Crowd treats her?

 

If I had a friend like Phatie's,

then I wouldn't be surprised at the insults she recieves for sleeping around. To me, sleeping around like that is something to be ashamed of.

However,that doesn't mean I think she deserves it, or that I think it's right that she gets bullied for it.

I don't think there's anything wrong with Phatie disliking her if she's the embodyment of everything that she finds to be vile and morally wrong. If she's suffering for it aswell, then I can understand her wanting to break away.
I don't think that means she agrees with people bullying the girl though - it just means that she disapproves of her friend's actions aswell as the people calling her names.

It takes time to get to know people and make an opinion - her opinion of her friend could have taken a complete u-turn. Just because she did like her, doesn't mean she needs to now. However, she still deserves to be treated with respect. It'd be completely unfair if you were to just flip her the finger and walk off one day, without even discussing your concerns with her.

If you really can't be friends with her, then I think the best thing to do, Phatie, would be to slowly distance yourself from her in a way that isn't gonna cause offense. That way, you aren't hurting anybody, but you're distancing yourself from what you've decided to be a bad crowd. Nothing wrong with that.

 

This makes absolutely no sense.

Also, she didnt call you a hypocrite, Phatie; she has called our culture hypocritical and is pointing out the double standard that today's women, including you and I, still must battle with.
Quoted for accuracy:

I feel really terrible for this girl. Just as you not sleeping with anyone is not 'wrong,' she actively sleeping with people is not wrong either. We all have different opinions and ways to live our lives. I have never, ever understood how people think that just because they disagree with a lifestyle means that it's wrong. It's just as inaccurate as your statement about saying that because she gives you weird looks, she must be a bisexual (which, by the way, is a perfect acceptable sexual identity).

I know you're new here, Phatie, and we all want you to enjoy your time as a member here, but know that we are not attacking you. No one is saying that you are wrong. We're saying your actions are definitely not what most people would consider the 'right' thing to do. And who are we to tell you what we think? You posted this online for everyone to talk about. You asked for it. I would like you to realize that our disagreeing with you is no different from you disagreeing with us.

I dont see why you've made this post in the first place; it really seems like you made up your mind before you posted it, and I can only imagine that you made up your mind on how to 'get rid' of this girl before you asked us for tips. It seems to me that every mind on this thread is being intolerant to each others' opinions, your mind in particular. It's getting a bit out of control, and every poster on here is a contributing factor.

Am I being harsh? Definitely, as was shawsend. But you made up your mind, and you put it out here. People are going to disagree with you. Period.

Have a 'pleasant' four years, but I sincerely hope you regret what you've done to this girl who is obviously in need of a friend. Cest la vie... hindsight is twenty/twenty, I suppose.

By the way, as a high school senior myself, in a gigantic school filled with 4500 students, I can tell you I never went with the crowd, and I always did what I thought was in others' best interests, not my superficial social status. You wont care when you graduate, and if you want to distance yourself, go right ahead. But if you start bullying her to raise your rep? That will damage her for a long, long time.

 

I have to say, that's quite far fetched...

 

It's strange how, generally speaking, women are expected to be ashamed of their promiscuity, yet men are commended for it. I agree that it's an ignorant aspect of our culture (nature?).

At any rate, she sounds like her self-esteem is as low as Dinky Winkie's. As does yours. I honesty think reputation is important, in a way, but not to the extent you're making it out to be. Preacher's daughters rep? What on Earth? A change in priorities might do you some good.

 

I didn't call you a hypocrite. I called society that. But I am a little disappointed in you nevertheless. Don't be mean to her. Ever considered talking to her about her promiscuity? Ever considered being a little head-strong to others that look down on that type of behavior? Girls have it tough these days, and the world is filled with mixed-messages about sexuality. Maybe she's not handling it well. Does she just think that's what girls do with boys? Does she have a friend to tell her differently? Are her parents involved in her life? Is she craving attention from boys because of an absent dad? Someone needs to help her, and apparently it doesn't seem to be you.

 

Exactly. I must have missed the memo that said it was okay to betray the people who showed you kindness.

 

Who says that people who sleep around want help?

and who says Phatie has to do it?

People who want to change start by helping themselves. It's nobody's obligation to interfere.

 

At 14 this ex-friend of Phaties, shouldn't be sleeping around. 14 year olds are not emotionally mature enough to hand sexual activity. Kissing, maybe. A little light groping, okay, but sex of any type, oral or full out intercourse should be looked upon in a negative light and not encouraged by the adult world.

However, if we look at Hollywood's example, we have movies like Hooking up, American Pie and other such movies that showcase high students promiscuity. It's Hollywood's attempt at reversing the polarity of morality.

Girls at that young of an age having sex, is a sign of both the times and their dysfunctional home lives and psychological issues.

Should this girl be chastised for sleeping around...no. But she shouldn't be encouraged either. She does need help. She needs adult help. Psychological help. And her parents should be ashamed at the job they have done raising her without moral standards.

While Phatie may have moral standards given to her by religion, having religion isn't necessary to having moral standards. I'm an atheist with high moral standards, not influenced by religion, but influenced by basic psychology and what is in the best interest of growing up to be an emotionally secure adult.

Phatie shouldn't associate with this girl if this girls influence may result in her own poor use of judgment. At 14 it is easy to be influenced by our peers. We are moving away from our parent's influence and becoming more influenced by those around us and our own decisions.

I do think Phatie is over reacting to the whole bisexual thing, as a good portion of the female population will at some point in their lives experiment with other women. It is a natural part of being female, as seen in most other mammal species. Weird looks (whatever that means) can mean anything, and doesn't mean she wants to jump your bones, just because she tends to be sexually loose. Obviously, this girl has issues, with both men and probably women.

Reputations mean nothing. In the long run of our lives, a reputation in high school generally doesn't follow us out of that building into our adult lives. It can to some extent should you remain in that same circle in that same town, but generally once you hit college high school reputations are erased.

Choosing not to be her friend, Phatie, has less to do with your own worry over your reputation as it is a conflict of personalities and morality. She is the antithesis of what you stand for. So don't be her friend on that basis, not because you are selfishly looking out for your own perceived reputation.

However, on the other side of things, if this girl really wants to make a change in her life, become religious, and be more like you, you could influence her behavior by example and remain friends with her. Encourage her to go to church with you. Talk to her about how damaging sexual activity at her age can be, between STD's, pregnancy, and emotional damage, there is a lot that can happen. You could remain friends with her with conditions. Saying, "I can't condone your sexual behavior, because it goes against the basics of Christian morals. " is perfectly acceptable to say. Saying, "I want to be your friend, but I can't be because your immoral behavior goes against all I believe in." is also fine to say. Either one might encourage her to change her behavior.

You also have to realize that she is going to be one screwed up person for the next four years. She probably will end up being an emotional leach, like many low-self-esteem females are. You may not have the emotional energy to deal with her, and it is fine to say so.

But make your decisions based on rational reasons, not emotional assumptions. This girls behavior is a clear example of her emotional issues. IF you can't or don't want to deal with it, then tell her that. Sure she's going to be upset. But, in the long run, it is healthier for you to not be friends with someone who will end up eating all of your time mixed up in her emotional problems. She would end up being a distraction to your education.

 

That same religion teaches tolerance and setting aside hate above all else.

I see very little likelihood of Phatie being influenced by this girl. But if Phatie can dial down the judging a bit, perhaps she can influence the girl.

They had something like a friendship. This girl has walled herself away from everyone else. With that kind of isolation comes a stubborn defiance as well. All the judging in the world will only firm up her resolve not to change. But if a friend talks to her, maybe she will listen to the friend - and to herself.

If the girl is happy with the choices she has made, none of this will make any difference, except that Phatie will have rejected the mob mentality. If the girl is miserable, maybe a caring friend will help her take the first step.

 

Just because somebody needs something, doesn't mean they want it or will even think of accepting help if offered.

If there's something psychologically wrong with her - then it's not Phatie's obligation to help. She's a young girl. That's the job of a therapist - something that serious shouldn't be the burdan of a child.

If it makes Phatie feel uncomfortable, then I don't think there's anything wrong with subtly distancing herself from this girl. You cannot expect her to just force a friendship ( or worse, lie and pretend) just because it's the 'right thing to do' in the eyes of people that have no idea how the situation actually is in the real world.

 

When I was in high school (mid 60's) there was a girl...I'll give her the fictitious name of Anne. Anne lived a couple doors down from me and the locker-room rumor was that she was an "absolute guarantee" on a date. Her outward appearance and behavior lent an air of authenticity to the rumors, as she looked and acted the part.

One day when I walked home from the bus stop, Anne was sitting on her porch steps crying. I asked if she wanted to talk. Turns out, she was pregnant and her parents were "sending her away" to have the baby and give it up for adoption. When she returned about five months later, her "slutty" behavior exploded. I was at a party one time when Anne took on all comers in a bedroom for nearly an hour. No, I did not participate.

I saw Anne again a couple years ago. We were in our late 50's now and she looked like she was in her 70's. Chain smoking, over weight, still wearing too much makeup...she told me that I was the only "boy" she knew in high school who did not take advantage of her. She asked with sincerity if I was gay. I laughed and showed her pictures of my wife, kids and grandkids. The only other thing she said was, "Thank you."

My point is, while I chose not to associate with Anne on a regular basis, I also did not criticize her or pass on rumors. I feel good about MY actions and that is all I care about because I was not professionally trained to help Anne deal with her deep rooted conflicts that manifested in her self-destructive behavior.

I would suggest you take a similar role with your "slutty" acquaintance. Some day when she becomes discouraged by her life choices, she might need to "talk" and you can refer her to the professional counseling she needs.

 

there is a huge difference.

 

This is exactly what I feel. I am not comfortable with telling her about what I feel, but also am not shallow enough to just dump her. And I recieved numerous insults about my wording of her behavior, I am sorry, I guess my concept of what she is should be dialed down a little. I am ashamed of the way that I handled that, I mine as well be another person in the hallway critisizing her.

but, this is the way she wants to be. And I cant help her, maybe a therapist, preacher etc. But not me.

The other day I told her to maybe wear some more wholesome clothes, in which she freaked out on me, saying it was none of my business. I dont know how to h andle it...

 

there are other adults on here who dont act this way. you dont know half of what i have deal with.

to whoever gave me this feedback

 

Just because a person makes mistakes in like doesn't mean the parents have failed, especially when those mistakes are driven by mental illness or emotional instability.

And Ash, people here not saying we approve of the sexual behaviour of the girl phatie is talking about, or that it is her responsibility to help her. We're simply saying that we disapprove of her attitude and reminding her of other things her religion teaches, such as compassion, and are suggesting actions that are not that of a bully. Some of what she has said sounds a lot like the bullying behaviour that people generally don't notice.

People also don't get help because they think nobody cares, not just because they aren't willing to improve or aren't ready. If she is only encountering people who scorn her for her actions, and don't bother considering the reasons, why would she get help, however much she may want it?

And, according to phatie, the girl has expressed a desire to "become a better Christian." But earlier phatie said some things that made it sound like it seems that doesn't matter to her, because supposedly she'll still be stuck with the reputation, which in turn will hurt phatie. That's incredibly selfish and immature. I admit I am speculating and making educated guesses here, but if any of it is on the mark, it is something that should be said. I would suspect that phatie doesn't like the idea of dumping a girl, and only wanted someone to tell her that dumping her is okay.

If you feel uncomfortable around a person, you don't have to be her friend, but it doesn't make it okay to be a bully. You should still treat them with respect when they are around, and not do anything that could make things worse for that person. Phatie may have appeared to be the one person in their grade who wouldn't be a bully to the girl or take advantage of her. So what if what the bullies say is true? It doesn't make talking about her that way all right. It also makes it harder to break away from the bad reputation, even when she isn't doing those things anymore. If her desire to improve and become a good Christian was genuine, the fact that phatie is a preacher's daughter could have also had something to do with it.

I wouldn't be surprised of one of the reasons she told phatie about those things is because she thought phatie was trustworthy, and accept her for who she is. A lot of people talk about past actions this way when they are ready for help, but are so wrapped up in the problem they are overcoming that they don't see how hearing these things effects others. If that's the case, she betrayed that trust. We don't know if any other students from that school view this site.

Edit:
Am am sorry about how I expressed myself yesterday. The attitude you expressed made me very angry. It seems we were both fueled by anger with what we said before. What you said did sound like bullying behaviour, and I take that very seriously and probably more personally than I should. True, I don't know what your life is like, but I do know that no matter what you've been through, it doesn't make it okay to turn into a bully.

You now do sound more compassionate now. If the girl is not ready for anything you can offer her, or you don't know how to handle it, but do care, like I said, introduce her to the church counsellor or something like that. You shouldn't do anything you're not able to handle.

 

How do you know she is emotionally instable or mental?
what if she just wants to be this way?

 

I don't, but I know that it's very common for this to be the source of such behevaiour, epsecially with younger teens. And the fact that she got that angry at a simple suggestion to dress more modestly does suggest emotional instability. Understand that I am looking at this from a social worker's point of view.

And phatie, you probably don't want it after my outburst yesterday (which was done in a private message that I regret as much as you regret how you talked about this girl), I would be willing to talk to you about this in more private messages.

 

I see your point rei, however, why do you think that its phatie's job to help her in this situation. If she was unstable it would be even more difficult for Phatie to be associated with her.

 

Certainly, it would be more difficult, but I didn't say it was her reposnsibility to help her.

quoted from my long post:

Providing suggestions for possible actions is not the same as saying it's her job to help the girl.

If it were up to me, I would close this thread, anyway. Like I said, we don't know if others from phatie's school view this site. If the girls who are bullying them read it, it could cause more problems.

 

I think everybody should stop assuming and let Phatie make her own choices now. We don't know the real circumstances, we don't know the girl in question, and we don't know what kind of mental state she's in. It's futile going over this and making up hypothetical situations instead of addressing the real problem.

The problem on Phatie's part is that she has made her mind up about wanting to stop being friends with her. The best we can offer is advice on how to do this in the kindest way possible, without causing offence in any way. There's no need to persuade her to make friends with somebody that she's already decided she couldn't have a decent friendship with.

(I already gave my suggestions above)

 

Yes, but how am I acting like a bully rei? because all I'm doing is calling her what she is, I dont make a show of it publicly infront of her to amuse the classroom like others, but this is what she is, and she knows it. so how can i help her when it is clearly not my job to do so?