Afraid of not being politically correct

Discussion in 'Character Development' started by C. W. Evon, Jul 25, 2015.

  1. ChickenFreak

    ChickenFreak Contributor Contributor

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    Erm... I'm kind of assuming you're joking about this part? That was the polite word for quite some time.
     
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  2. Link the Writer

    Link the Writer Flipping Out For A Good Story. Contributor

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    Again, not everyone in 19th-century America used that word, and I did say earlier that back then, that word was their way of being polite to black people.

    On a quasi-related note, is it true that 'gypsy' is a racial slur for the Roma and Dom people?

    EDIT: I'm just gonna make one final note. If it's important to the story, keep it. If not, leave it out. She doesn't have to use that word if you don't want her to.
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2015
  3. ChickenFreak

    ChickenFreak Contributor Contributor

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    Are you assuming that using ANY word to register awareness of race would have been wrong?

    Edited to add: I'm still trying to figure out the meaning of your earlier quote:

    This suggests that the word during that period would still be seen as wrong. My point is that it wouldn't, and that therefore there would be no reason for a character, however enlightened, to be horrified by it
     
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  4. Usagi

    Usagi Member

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    Even in the North there was a huge amount of racism, the use of the term 'negro' didn't even scratch the surface of it. Though many white northerners opposed slavery, most still viewed black people as inferior to whites. (although admittedly the research I've done on the matter went up to the end of the war, not after). If you try to be too politically correct, you could be at risk of ignoring this fact. That, to me, is wrong.

    If you want to write an entertaining read, I agree that its best to stay away from very controversial issues :)
    But at least keep the views and dialogue of your characters reasonably accurate. If you're going to give your main characters a more enlightened viewpoint, at least hint at why they have developed such a way of thinking.

    Good luck with the writing!
     
  5. Link the Writer

    Link the Writer Flipping Out For A Good Story. Contributor

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    OK, fair point. I didn't consider that. I just assumed if the character were enlightened, they would be horrified at racial slurs. But I suppose that would probably make them (and the piece) a little too modern, especially if it's supposed to be set just after the American Civil War.
     
  6. KaTrian

    KaTrian A foolish little beast. Contributor

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    Based on what you've divulged so far about the story, your choice of words sound okay. It seems to be in-character, and I think whenever an author decides to write a certain type of character, they should try to stay true to that character. I'm not saying one can hide behind their characters in order to spew hate, but that for example in your case, I see no problem in what she says. Granted, I'm neither Irish nor American, but I tried to insert the situation in an equivalent power balance I am familiar with.

    @Link the Writer Whether or not 'gypsy' is a racial slur may depend on context. There are songs and stories that romanticize and partly misrepresent "gypsies" where the term could be considered fairly harmless. Then again, I wouldn't use it in, say, a political debate about "the immigration of the Romani to the UK" or some such. I can't say I'm that familiar with the culture (my grandfather was Romani, but he was adopted and never grew up within the culture), but e.g. the Romani in my country, might not respond that positively to a term that carries negative connotations in addition to romantic/positive ones. As far as I know, it's not anywhere near as bad as 'nigger', though. However, it's probably safest to let the Romani use it at their leisure while the rest of us stick to more neutral terms, especially in polite company. ;)
     
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  7. Usagi

    Usagi Member

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    Not sure I agree with this... what's considered horrible today is not the same as what was considered horrible in the 19th century. Writing so that the villains are the ones with the historically accurate mindsets and the protagonists are the ones with the modern mindsets reinforces the idea that we are somehow 'better' than our ancestors. Perhaps we are more enlightened, but not 'better'. Whenever I read a historical book where the protagonist thinks just how we think today, I think "this author hasn't done enough research".

    In my opinion the best way to avoid upsetting anyone is to avoid focussing too much controversial issues. But when it does come up (and it will), OP should not try to change history by making it sound nicer than it was.
     
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  8. Link the Writer

    Link the Writer Flipping Out For A Good Story. Contributor

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    Well said. Well said. It would be absurd if the heroes were much like we are today and the villains were...well...what society back then considered the norm. Even a kind-hearted soul from back then wouldn't balk and gasp if someone shouted out a racial slur.

    To be honest, the simplest solution would be to simply not have the main character say a racial slur, even if he/she isn't bothered by other people saying it.
     
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  9. ChickenFreak

    ChickenFreak Contributor Contributor

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    My point is that it wasn't a slur. Unless, again, you would say that any word that refers to race is a slur. When Martin Luther King used the word repeatedly in his I Have a Dream speech, for example, he did not intend it as a slur.
     
  10. Link the Writer

    Link the Writer Flipping Out For A Good Story. Contributor

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    That is also a good point. I guess it does depend on the context of how you're using that word? For a kind-hearted soul in the 1800s, 'Negro' would've been just another way of saying 'black person', correct?

    Still, to avoid controversy, just don't have your character say the word, even if he/she were only using it to describe that this person was black.

    And now I feel like I've hijacked this thread. Sorry, OP. :[
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2015
  11. Steerpike

    Steerpike Felis amatus Contributor

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    @ChickenFreak is right, up through around the 1960s Negro was considered the proper term, even by most blacks. That's why King used it and why you had a Negro league in baseball and the United Negro College Fund. It was still used on the last U.S. Census (according to Wikipedia) because some older blacks still use the word to self-identify. So, in the historical context, it isn't likely anyone would be horrified by the use of the word. In fact, for a time 'black' was considered more of a slur than Negro, though that has been reversed in the past few decades.
     
  12. Wreybies

    Wreybies Thrice Retired Supporter Contributor

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    Never. Never, ever. Writing a politically correct version of events from long ago times is a whitewash. It's historical revisionism. It makes future generations read your politically correct story and think, "I can't see what all the fuss was about as regards slavery/women's rights/LGBT rights. I mean, just read this story here. Not so bad."

    Then perhaps you shouldn't yet engage a topic where this would happen. If I were black person, I would be offended at the lack of realism in what was actually experienced.

    In the America of the time of which you are speaking, she wouldn't be seen as "faking" an American accent. You have to try to slip out of your 2015 skin and slip yourself into a late 1800's one. America is still "ramping up" its population at this time with quite a bit of immigration. The "American Accent" is still quite mutable at this point and certain accents that we would recognize in 2015 don't even exist yet because the regions in which they are currently used haven't yet been populated by Europeans to any extent. She wouldn't be "faking" an American accent, she would be cultivating one. What she herself believes she is doing is pretty much what she really is doing.

    Why in the world would a dude from the late 1800's think the term "African American" to himself? That's a relatively new term that only started getting any real coin when I was already an adult. I mean, he's not going to think "positronic brain" or "warp drive" either, and though those examples may seem ridiculous, he wouldn't think those words for the exact same reason he wouldn't think "African American". It's not part of his 1800's lexicon, regionalism, idiolect, nothing.

    You are super overthinking this. If this is what Miles thinks, this is what Miles thinks. And it would seem to be a perfectly sequitur thought for a white man living in 1800's America to have. He lives in his time, not ours. He thinks his thoughts, appropriate to his day and time and place and social positions, etc.

    Don't burn your MS. Yes, you are overthinking this with dual overhead cams, turbocharger, air intake by Edelbrock. If you give me a Miles from the 1800's to read and consider and ponder but he's really some 2015 free-trade-coffee drinking hipster from Seattle who only uses organic vegan hair products.... No. I don't want to read that.
     
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  13. Link the Writer

    Link the Writer Flipping Out For A Good Story. Contributor

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    Wrey, I think you just won the thread. :)

    @C. W. Evon -
    The important thing for historical fiction writers to remember is this: the characters are living in a time and place that is far different than the modern times the writer lives in now. Certain beliefs that are now considered offensive were the norm back then. For goodness sake, unless you were a heterosexual, white, Christian male with no physical or mental disability whatsoever, you were screwed one way or another. I would've been completely screwed with my hearing and vision loss. Why do you think Helen Keller was so famous? Because the idea that a blind/deaf child could even do anything was so outside the norm, so outside what they thought possible that when she proved them wrong, everyone went "OMG WOW!!!" To act like Helen didn't have to fight as hard as she did would be insulting to her memory. It'd be downplaying the struggle she faced being a blind+deaf woman growing up in late 19th/early 20th century America.

    Miles lives in the 1880s. Let him think, act, believe things typical for a man in the 1880s. Sure he may be a kind-hearted soul who would give a random street orphan his coat, he may have 'some' beliefs that are outside the norm, but it's crucial to not write him like he's a man from 2015 living in the 1880s. If he's going to call a black person 'negro' or treat them differently, let him. It would actually be more insulting to act like racism didn't exist at all back then. Heinously insulting.

    So go forth and write those characters, and sorry for temporarily hijacking your thread. :p
     
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  14. ChickenFreak

    ChickenFreak Contributor Contributor

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    Yep, except it would be far MORE polite than "black person", because "black" wasn't the polite word in use at the time. Unless I'm deeply mistaken, "Negro" was no more offensive than "white" or "Hispanic" is now. It's just acquired negative connotations from history.
     

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