No kidding. That aside, I've been wondering about something but don't know enough about the porn industry to answer the question myself: since there's so much free porn on the web nowadays, so easily found, why would anyone ever pay for porn? How can anyone make money selling porn? I understand most actresses get paid (and some actors) and the sites hosting the free videos likely get some ad revenues, but I mean actual porn producers, how do they make any profit after covering the expenses of making a porn flick? Do so many people still buy actual porn DVDs / pay membership fees to web pages that it's a lucrative business? Or does the real money come from the less legal side of the sex industry? ETA: I do believe the effects of porn on how young men view women are greatly exaggerated in most cases (usually foaming about it is just sensationalism), but I was thinking about actual children. I saw my first internet porn when I was 12, I think, but that was when the internet was still in its infancy. Nowadays I'd imagine it's not uncommon for children well under 10 to find porn (yes, they will search for it proactively because it's interesting) and for kids that young, a lot of the things they'll end up seeing could be difficult to put into context and that could create some problems along the way.
That acquaintance of mine I mentioned who was/is in the porn industry? He told me his paycheck has become at least 3 times smaller in recent years, for the very reasons you mention. So yes, it's an enormous problem, and the porn industry is losing colossal amounts of money. In many instances, yes. Like I wrote above, for many actresses, it's nothing more than an advertisement for their escorting/stripping careers, which is where they make the bulk of their money. I was 13 myself. Agreed. That's why I think handing over a computer and the Internet to a kid at too early of an age is a bad idea.
I have no idea what's the case right now, but back when I was still single and hung out with other single ladies, men and boys actually preferred the company of a real person and the chance to have actual sex than watch porn if faced with the choice. There's still the stigma of porn-watchers being losers and wankers, unless they actually have a partner. On the other hand, just like some men (and women, why not) realize at some point that porn has skewed their perception of sex or ability to enjoy it as much as they might have without it, I've realized that I can't watch random internet porn without actually feeling sick to my stomach. Not because of the act (because I wouldn't watch anything violent or triple-penetrational for kicks), but because I start to think about why these people are doing this. Do they enjoy this? Would they rather do something else? Do they hate bleaching and waxing as much as I would/do? How did they end up there? God her tits are ugly and she's so fat! So anyway, at this point it's irrelevant to me personally whether the UK decides to ban it (yeah right) and create a national wanker database, but I guess I wanted to give an example how the human brain skews stuff (of course cartoons are another matter), plus I still think banning every potentially harmful thing won't save our precious immortal souls or keep our kids safe from predators and plastic tits. How about ethics? Some companies produce entertainment with certain standards and regulations taken into account, so perhaps a more responsible consumer would put money there instead of downloading/streaming something that's free and, well, "shady" (sorry, can't think of a better word now). Even the actors and actresses aren't necessarily grotesque boob and peck jobs in some non-gratis entertainment produced by companies. I guess if I found the type of porn (aside from instructional stuff--is it porn?--which btw sounds super-weird, as if I didn't know where to put it) I actually enjoyed, I suppose I'd give them monetary compensation for the fun they provide.
I've noticed that too, btw: I don't really want to watch porn where it's likely the participants aren't really enjoying themselves. Sure, it limits your options, but not so much that you still wouldn't have an abundance of material to choose from. And it's not just with porn either, but in general I prefer to deal with products / services that come from people who like what they do, be it an item that's made by a craftsman who loves his/her work instead of someone working in a sweat shop or, for the sake of this conversation, amateur porn made by people who get their exhibitionistic kicks from doing it vs. mass-produced random smut where the content is basically a video recording of a guy having sex with a less than enthusiastic prostitute only in it for what little money she gets from it. Kinda like buying an American-made gun or guitar vs. one that's been built in China or Mexico with cheap labor who are treated / paid less than admirably. I didn't think about that, but that's a good point. See the first part of this post.
And I was actually supposed to say governments banning every potentially harmful thing. I think parents can and should ban stuff from their kids and should not be afraid of toting their morals to them.
Absolutely. There would be fewer problems if parents did a better job at rising their kids. Most parents do an admirable job, but I've seen some pretty awful examples of parenting, so it's no surprise there are so many idiots in the world who ruin it for the rest of us just because they can't get it through to their thick skulls that doing dumb shit can get you hurt.
Glad you got the topic back to porn there TT nut while we're at it: A good friend and workmate of mine visited a brothel at least once a week in Dublin, he was a good looking guy who could have pulled normally in a bar of whatever but I guess he had real problem approaching women. This guy was an ex boxer but was terrified of girls. Every Friday night, after he got paid at work, he went to the brothel. One night he tried a new girl, she was Polish, while he was, she said she loved him, he was handsome and so good in bed - he freaked out, jumped up, dressed, threw money on the floor and fled. He told me all about it on the Monday at work, he ran down the stairs to the basement carpark and got lost looking for his car. I'm sure brothels already supply such luxouries We watched a channel 4 programme a few weeks ago where a mother called a "sex therapist" for her 18 year old handicapped son. This woman came round, for all intents and purposes a hooker, and took the boy upstairs for an hour. She was interviewed afterwards, loved her job, drove a nice car back to a nice house and booked in the next handicapped kid who couldn't attract a women himself. Of course there are trafficked, drug fuelled, street walkers - that's life until it's all opened up but a lot of these women provide a valuable service. Maybe the girls in a legalised world would need to be licenced, go on a training course that included self-defence, counselling for possible future fucked-upness, accountancy/business classes and better networking re: dodgy guys. Maybe put a brothel next to a police station or at least with direct lines/panic alarms. You know, it's hard to imagine what some of you call random porn, triple orifice stuffing etc - that's really not nice, even M/F porn is crap but a couple of girls without toys - hey ho! My wife is from Carson City Nv where prostitution and porno making is totally legal, she cut the girl's hair and did their make up before "shooting" (in a salon not 'on-set'). The girls loved their job, they were totally voluntary - and sobre - and lots left the industry after making enough money. Can they have normal relationships afterwards? I don't know. Is sex special afterwards? Probably not but you pays your money and you takes your chances. Again this is where counselling comes in. We all do, or have done, jobs we hate. Look at 9 out 10 car mechanics - they all have crap cars, the last thing you want to do when you get home is do what you've been doing all day - That's why I didn't take up gynecology! Banning porn/prostitution because it has illegal or organised crime attachments is not an option. Prostitution is already is illegal (in most countries) and look where that's got us. Keeping brothels with harmful clients down back alleys is worse, the same goes for prostitutes who contract AIDS and decide to take revenge on future clients - it works both ways. Legalise it, provide counselling and health checks, take away the smut, the stigma and tax it. I still think some kind of fair trade porn would be a good solution.
I've read a similar story from somewhere too. To say 100 % of porn actors and actresses hate their jobs and are abused is a little bold. Though in all fairness, I wouldn't say after that on TV that my job sucks, I really wish I didn't have to suck random dick for money, but it's not like I get the same compensation from a nicer, available job, so what the hell, a girl's gotta do what a girl's gotta do. And the same with the hairdresser customer; I'd never want to portray myself as a victim either. I'd say I love my job, too, I'd hate to feel like I had failed in life and I'd rather make the same money in a field that makes Mommy proud. But we aren't all privileged enough to choose how we bring the bread on the table, and we aren't all built the same way either, and some have thick skins and don't mind putting a price tag on their orifices, so I'm sure some individuals genuinely love their jobs in the sex industry. I haven't any positive personal experiences to share like erebh, though. Every single girl's been a royal mess, but that doesn't mean some couldn't love it.
[MENTION=52161]erebh[/MENTION]: Yes, those niche call girls are saints. The amount of happiness and normality they can bring to their clients lives is huge. Both very elderly and disabled who otherwise may have no chance for love and affection, and they make very grateful customers. Those girls are very far removed from your ordinary hookers, and a lot of them have families. Also dominatrix-types who don't even have sex with their customers. The key is that women are in charge of their bodies and finances. The rest works itself out.
I hope there is as much compassion for other people who made shitty life decisions and ended up in unfulfilling jobs who didn't resort to whoring themselves out.
I thought these two videos might illustrate things a bit. They feature social experiments, In the first, guy is asking random girls for sex, and the second, it's the girl who does the asking. Interesting results, although not entirely unexpected
[MENTION=53984]Garball[/MENTION], I think the point is that not every prostitute is some lazy brat who ended up selling her body because she wasted all her opportunities because all she ever wanted to do was shoot up all the time, for example. Besides, the mental and physical capacity to build a good life for yourself isn't a given and not everybody is granted the same foundation on which to build upon. If you've been lucky enough to have a relatively normal, solid upbringing, have stayed healthy enough, even live in the right country / area etc. to build that respectable career as an accountant or whatever, great, but the issue here is that there's too much abuse of poor circumstances going on, and this extends beyond the sex industry (sweat shops, anyone?). So yeah, I feel for the folks who have to live on the barest minimum income for whatever reason because I know what it is to be poor, especially because of failing health. Sometimes despair makes people do strange things. Not to be a jackass, but I, for one, believe in second chances in this instance, and don't lift my nose at people who've taken a wrong turn or two. I mean, nobody's perfect, everyone makes mistakes, so who are we to judge? The unfrainess of it all stems at least partly from the fact that not everyone has to pay the same price for the same mistakes. Some get away with a scare while others end up ruined for life. Btw, I agree with KaTrian that many of the girls who claim they love doing porn / working as a prostitute are just keeping up appearances. Some genuinely love their jobs, of course, but I'm willing to bet that they are in the minority. I usually don't advertise it either when things are going badly, especially if I was talking to a camera / reporter. Few have the guts to admit to potentially thousands, even millions that their lives suck, especially if they are in a profession that is often seen as something to be ashamed about. [MENTION=52161]erebh[/MENTION], to me 'random porn' is what you see on the front page of youtube-like porn sites. And they have some pretty hardcore material there, ranging from double penetration, machines, hard paddling, rape, gangbangs, girls paid to give head to old, shitty (literally) homeless guys who haven't washed for weeks etc. And that's just the average, 'normal' stuff. Unless there's been some notable change in porn trends that I'm unaware of.
What studies? Name them, and unless they have some really genius control or method of finding this out, for all of them I will be able to say that correlation does not imply causation. Its like when they found video games in a school shooter's home. Lots of people immediatly blamed the games. Now just replace video games with porn and school shooter with wife abuser. Still the same thing, just because he watched porn does not mean its the reason he saw his wife as a sex object. It's like you are assuming all teens are idiots who because they saw something on a video they think its how it is in real life. Before and after me seeing porn, my view on women or sex did not change at all as with almost everyone. Getting rid of porn will unfortunately not change anything.
[MENTION=54606]redreversed[/MENTION]: And why don't you simply type into Google "studies about damaging effects of pornography"? Or go to Wikipedia which details several well known studies. Anyone who claims 'there's no evidence' must be working really hard to not find any. [MENTION=53329]T.Trian[/MENTION]: Really well said
I'm sure there are all sorts of porn sites out there. But anyway, on 99.999% of porn sites you have to agree that you are over 18 - I am over 18, ENTER or I am under 18, I'M LEAVING - if only kids were more honest
I know there is a study to be found to support any view you wish to have, but this line caught my eye: “There’s absolutely no evidence that pornography does anything negative,” says Milton Diamond, director of the Pacific Center for Sex and Society at the University of Hawaii at Manoa. “It’s a moral issue, not a factual issue.”
I don't think we can make the assumption that young men constantly pleasuring themselves to staged sex is good for future normal, healthy relationships. Also, the sexualization and objectification of women induce negative feelings in girls about their bodies in adolescence, which ultimately may lead to sexual problems in adulthood. It negatively affects both men and woman. I can give a few links for you, but there is a mountain of studies out there on the negative effects of the sexualization of our youth through media and music, including porn. Report of the APA Task Force on the Sexualization of Girls - This report contains references to many, many studies done on the adverse psychological, physical and emotion impacts of our porn culture in young women. The Impact of Pornography on Children & Youth - This Fact Sheet from the National Coalition to Prevent Child Abuse and Exploitation cites more studies. Also, the over-emphasis on sexuality is affecting healthy marriages as well. In fact, a study by Bridges, Bergner and Hesson-McInnis (2003) found a strong predictor of marital distress, separation and divorce. Stack, Wasserman, and Kern (2004) found individuals involved in an extramarital affair were 3.18 times more likely to have used Internet porn than individuals who had not had an affair. It also validated a correlation between internet porn and infidelity, and that online infidelity was seen as an act of betrayal -- similar to offline unfaithful behavior. Schneider, J. P. (2000), "Effects of cybersex addiction on the family: results of a survey. Sexual addiction & compulsivity" showed a negative impact of porn on sexual intimacy within marriages. I know many people will disagree with me, but sex was never meant to be some casual, flippant thing that we just use irresponsibly. It was always meant to be a deep, emotional bonding between lifetime partners. This is my own opinion that may not be explicitly proved by science, but the evidence seems to show that casual sexuality is having a negative effect on our society.
I read the few studies that were cited in that article and I found them unconvincing. If you compare these smaller studies with all the other resources that are out there, I think Mr. Diamond at the 'sex center' cherry-picked a few inconclusive studies performed on a handful of college students.
I'm pretty sure that sexual intercourse is meant to be a way for humans to reproduce. The fact that it brings pleasure makes it nice for the purpose of experiencing that pleasure, as well. How, in what ways, why and on what level we find this pleasure is, of course, different from individual to individual. I personally believe that porn becomes a problem when it becomes a significantly dominant part of your sex life. I believe that sex as a topic in society today is mishandled entirely, and as I've said before, I think putting less weight on the importance of sex while at the same time not demonizing it will help move society to a generally healthier view on sex. For example, casual sex to me isn't just lust, although it has a big part: To me, there's certainly an amount of affection and emotional intimacy involved as well, and the experience altogether is in one way or the other wonderful. So I don't believe casual sex is the problem - it's one's view on (casual) sex. I honestly don't think porn is in the same ball park as the biggest culprits.
You mean people cherry-picking evidence to support their own beliefs? No way would that happen around here. It would be absurd to think that a person would enter a debate without motive and unbiased studies to support their beliefs. The majority of reports I saw on the negative effects of porn on the psyche failed to answer the causation/correlation relationship. To state to me that more rapists look at rape porn or a misogynist looks at demeaning porn is like telling me more Scots watch caber tossing. Would you open a hamburger stand in the middle of Veganville? Why would you create a form of porn with no audience? I'm am not saying it is a morally right act, but I am saying they are catering and not creating.
Garball, I have supported the fact that porn is negatively influencing our society with multiple national and un-biased studies. Please explain how you disregard those studies. I highly doubt you researched or even read half of the dozens of studies I linked to. Also, the fact that there is a market for something, does not mean it is a positive influence on our society as a whole.
[MENTION=44992]JJ_Maxx[/MENTION] Are you serious? You think young men or older boys shouldn't masterbate? That it will come back and bite their ass later. When I was 14 I needed an operation to get my hand off it! You must have worn boxing gloves all your formative years. This argument is getting boring - it works both ways. Do 14 year old boys wonder why they haven't got 12 inch dicks? Or worry they won't last 90 minutes? Or think they are inadequate because they can't pull 2 girls at once? Fashion magazines and store mannequins have more negative effects on girls regarding their bodies than any porno. And if we're really serious about desexualising kids in this world we need to ban Britney Spears videos and baby pageants and little girl mini skirts and tiny boob tubes. How long did it take to ban Bratz dolls? Ever see a fat Barbie? From a year old girls are handed a beach babe Barbie and told this is what girls should look like? Was Snow White a size 10? Or Cinderella? And of course lads, if you want to prove anything, no matter how outrageous, you will find links on the internet to support your argument. and this gem - - oh pulease... what bible thumper came up with that one? And, According to who? I didn't realise we came with instruction manuals that had to be strictly adhered to. When I was younger there was nothing in the world better than drunken one night stands - the ultimate weekend! Sex is great, if you love the one you're with it's even better but, 'it was always meant to be'? Next we'll be on about virgins till the wedding night. Would you buy a car without taking it for a test drive? How would you even learn to drive if you had to wait till you owned a car?
Okay, so the question is simple: To most people, which is preferable? Having actual intercourse or masturbating to visualizations of intercourse? I'm pretty sure the former answer will be the large majority, and I'm pretty sure that the latter will more often than not be a substitution for a lack of the former. If you accept this premise, then the problem becomes: "People want to have more sex than they can have." And so the solution, as I've said multiple times, is quite simply "an increased amount of sexual intercourse and a reduced amount of desire for sexual intercourse for those people." Does anyone here disagree with me? EDIT: To make it clear, I'm not saying that all masturbation is bad - far from it.
Nope. This is a wagon I am more than happy to jump on. Western Civ. has enslaved sexuality to arbitrary paradigms of purity, goodness, and morality for so long it's a miracle any reproduction happens at all. It falls under that painfully crippling thought process that somehow we are different in kind, not just by degree, than the rest of fauna on this planet.
