Alpha, Beta, and Gamma Readers

Discussion in 'Revision and Editing' started by aikoaiko, Aug 14, 2014.

  1. Dunning Kruger

    Dunning Kruger Active Member

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    Isnt an alpha reader your spouse or best friend usually? I had my best friend, a former creative writing major in college, read a story I attempted after 50 pages. He told me it was shit and all the reasons why it was shit. I decided it wasnt worth trying to fix and junked it. Better to figure this out after 50 pages than 300. Then again, it was the first thing I ever attempted so I'm probably not who Jazzabell had in mind...
     
  2. BayView

    BayView Huh. Interesting. Contributor

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    I totally disagree.

    This might be what works for you, but I really don't see a connection between a writer's level of skill and their need for "hand holding". I also don't think the only reason to have someone read early drafts is "hand holding".

    Like you, I started writing with publicly posted WIPs, and it was incredibly valuable for me. Unlike you, I haven't completely moved away from it. I send my agent the first few chapters of my novels fairly often, and she offers useful feedback at that point. She knows the markets a lot better than I do and can offer useful advice at that stage. Why bother writing the whole book and then finding out it's going to be a hard sell because of something I could have easily changed early on? I also sometimes send a few chapters to other writers, if I'm stuck on something and need a fresh perspective. I return the favour when requested.

    I guess maybe this means I'm not a "skilled writer" in your world. (No, I'm not offended. Just reading over your post and trying to figure out some way that what you said and what I'm saying could both be true at the same time.). I guess we can all have our own definitions of "skilled". In my definition, a skilled writer comes up with a good final product, using whatever means seem appropriate at the time.

    Have you ever co-written something? It's super-fun, and the end results can often be really good, and there's a built in reader for early drafts of the story. I think this can lead to real bursts of creativity.

    I get impatient with the idea that there's a right and wrong way to write. If getting feedback early works for some people, great. If other would prefer to keep the story to themselves until it's totally polished, that's great, too. It's not a question of relative skill levels, it's just different approaches. It's all good.
     
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  3. Mckk

    Mckk Member Supporter Contributor

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    I think it depends more on the person you're asking than on whether you're using alpha, beta and gamma readers. How many readers you get at which stage of your book hardly matters. Ask the wrong person, or ask too many people, and I think it can do more damage than good.

    Letting someone read your work as you write it - the alpha reader - can be advantageous in terms of boosting your confidence, keeping you accountable and actually getting writing done, and helps you spot flaws early. Sometimes they suggest a good change you wouldn't have thought of otherwise and it would save you writing 10k just to delete it all later.

    But equally, that means you've giving someone else the power to steer your story. Like it or not, you will likely be influenced by their opinion. This can sometimes pull you in directions you didn't want to go, and you end up writing something you didn't really want and become dissatisfied.

    I find it's often a bad idea to ask too many people. Everyone has their opinion on what you should do next, what makes good writing etc - and well-intended though their opinions are, they will often insist or say things very firmly that makes you second guess your own judgement, even though you actually disagree with them. Now, if you have one or two people doing this, it's fine. If you have 10 different voices all pulling you in 10 different directions, you're going to start becoming confused.

    Other times the person reading your work is just the wrong audience. They hate everything you write and eveything that happens in your book, and they have good reasons - problem is, they aren't your target audience, and what they enjoy reading isn't the kind of book you wanted to write. However, hear it enough times from enough people that they just keep finding flaw after flaw in your story or give you simple tight-lipped silence, you'll start doubting yourself, and what may have been a perfectly good book might get scrapped because they've made you believe it's not worth it.

    And none of these people are malicious. All of them are only trying to help and are giving you genuine, honest feedback from what they've read. It's not about painting anyone into a villain, but these things happen.

    And for these reasons, that's why I say it's more important who you ask, as opposed to how many people you ask.
     
  4. KaTrian

    KaTrian A foolish little beast. Contributor

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    This is interesting. What does this in practice mean? Do you ever feel like you're giving up something you really wanted to do because your audience requires a certain formula? Or is it like, you're cool pretty much with anything?

    I take it you don't mean makes-sensey changes here, like, "please fix this plot hole," but changing your writing to something that will sell better (not sure what that'd be in the field of romance, like, there has to be a happy ending or something)?
     
  5. Commandante Lemming

    Commandante Lemming Contributor Contributor

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    NO! An alpha reader is someone you trust, who thinks the premise of your story is good, and who you think is capable of figuring out what you're trying to say and make it better rather than just saying "This sucks". I'll allow pretty much anyone I know to alpha-read my stuff, but I don't actually ASK people unless I trust their temperament, tastes, and experience with writing. This INCLUDES certain people even in my writing group and immediate family. For instance, I love my mother dearly, but I found out way back in high school (more than a decade ago) that she can't see the big picture of a work in progress. She will never offer any critique beyond grammar, and will say "I don't know" when asked if the story or characters are good (because she literally doesn't know)...while assaulting the draft with a red pen for grammar and spelling.

    This is the textbook example of a close, trusted person who is NOT allowed to alpha read your manuscript. Another example is the person who tells you that your work is shit, and why it's shit, without saying "but I get where you're going and here's how you might fix it".

    I've actually had to have the discussion with my mom about why my dad was invited to look at my current draft and she wasn't - and after explaining it, she's OK with it and looking forward to beta-reading the finished draft.
     
  6. BayView

    BayView Huh. Interesting. Contributor

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    Sometimes the formula is ridiculously specific - like, if you're writing a small-town romance, there should be an older character who offers wisdom to one or both protagonists. I kid you not, this is, like, a requirement for some publishers. So, I wrote the first few chapters of a small-town romance, had not yet introduced a wise older character, and my agent said, hey, is there room for someone like this? And, yeah, there was room. Whatever. It's weird, but it worked fine.

    Other times there have been character suggestions. My agent knows I'm not going to write an over-the-top alpha male hero, but for one book she said the character, as I was writing him, seemed wimpy and kind of lacked agency. She said she thought it would make the book harder to sell. I read over what I'd written, decided she was right, and pepped him up. I hadn't set out to write a wimpy character, so it wasn't like she was messing with my vision for the book - she was just pointing out something that would bug some people.

    Another time I sent her the first few chapters of something that I KNEW was going to be a hard sell (urban fantasy, which is currently a bloated market) and asked whether she thought it had any prayer. Should I keep writing it? She said the market wasn't any good right now, maybe I should keep it on a back burner and focus on other stuff that would be easier to sell. So... yeah.

    I'm pretty prolific. I think there are people who write one book, and that's about all they want to do. For them, I can see how it's important to make that one book as pure a representation of their vision as possible. But me? I'm going to write lots of books. I don't have a problem with being flexible on any given one.
     
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  7. KaTrian

    KaTrian A foolish little beast. Contributor

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    Wow, I never knew that. I don't really read romance, so I'm unfamiliar with the genre. I haven't read any small-town romances either, but that sounds quite funny that there always has to be the wiser, older character. :D But then again, I guess even in real life, after moving to a new town, you'd likely meet someone who was older and knew more about stuff, sooner or later anyway.

    That sounds like a good suggestion. Romance or not, I have a feeling readers don't really appreciate doormats and wimpy characters, or at the very least they have to get their shit together pretty fast or their wimpery has to have a strongly humorous side that makes their blunders sympathetic/relatable instead of frustrating. I tried to write a character like that once, but the feedback was as you'd expect: please make him more decisive and less of a push-over, that's so annoying!
     

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