1. naruzeldamaster

    naruzeldamaster Senior Member

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    Am I the only one who kind of loathes the 'It's nothing' Trope?

    Discussion in 'Dialogue Development' started by naruzeldamaster, Jul 23, 2021.

    Don't get me wrong, when utilized well it's a pretty great narrative tool that can add tension to MC's unresolved issues. However, so often, at least in video games (particularly in JRPG) the trope is mishandled and comes off as predictable/downright stupid/usually results in a life or death situation for the party. Lack of communication is and always will be part of the human condition, but come on, if you're going to do that, have insightful characters remain insightful. Have the childhood friend actually notice something's fucked up before the plot demands it.

    It mostly just bugs me because when this trope is in play, characters who are otherwise insightful and observant usually become complete idiots until the plot demands that they notice it.
     
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  2. Bruce Johnson

    Bruce Johnson Contributor Contributor Contest Winner 2023

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    Do you mean like when a character will have some suspicions or injury to themself and try and deflect any questions about it by saying "it's nothing" causing all sorts of unnecessary problems?
     
  3. Not the Territory

    Not the Territory Contributor Contributor Contest Winner 2023

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    Here I googled it for anyone curious: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ItsProbablyNothing

    I think I largely encounter it in a sort of satirical sense—which is usually hilarious. But I can see you being annoyed by what is essentially lazy writing.

    Edit: I had the wrong trope. See explanation below.
     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2021
  4. Bruce Johnson

    Bruce Johnson Contributor Contributor Contest Winner 2023

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    Interestingly, I don't think this was listed there, but this trope was sort of subverted in 'The Matrix' when Neo noticed the glitch in the Matrix and Epoch (I think) insisted he tell him what bothered him. Of course, there wasn't much they could do about it, but at least they knew.
     
  5. Not the Territory

    Not the Territory Contributor Contributor Contest Winner 2023

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    Oh yeah, good example. Huh, so they played with that and 'chosen one/destiny.'

    Now that I think of it, horror movies do it a lot but nothing's coming to mind right now. Typically more reasonable there, though. If I saw a supernatural boogie man, I'd react by doubting my own senses. Or maybe I'd try to find evidence before coming clean about it so people don't see me as looney. My nerves literally have gotten the better of my senses in the past, so it's not a stretch.
     
  6. naruzeldamaster

    naruzeldamaster Senior Member

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    That's the only search result I found when I googled it too lol but that's not what I'm talking about (I think)

    What I'm talking about is the plot thread of
    1: MC has traumatic thing (not usually but often related to super power or something plot relevant) cause them trauma/stress.
    2: Side Character asks what's wrong
    3: MC says 'it's nothing'
    4: Other characters accept this answer and move on with their lives UNTIL
    5: Plot demands that the 'nothing' thing becomes relevant, not usually but often putting party at risk of dying. (But since they have plot armor they escape and survive)
    6: Other characters are annoyed that MC didn't communicate to them and demand explanation (again, ONLY because the plot demands that they do)
    7: MC explains thingie and the other characters spend the rest of the plot trying to resolve the issue or turn it into a boon for their adventure.
     
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  7. Not the Territory

    Not the Territory Contributor Contributor Contest Winner 2023

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    Oops well ignore what I said. :D
     
  8. naruzeldamaster

    naruzeldamaster Senior Member

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    I think the trope is called 'Poor communication Kills' I think?
    https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/PoorCommunicationKills
    Yuppers, that's the one lol even the TV tropes article has a lot to say bout 'in order for it to work well'
     
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  9. Dreams Of Spaceships

    Dreams Of Spaceships New Member

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    OH MY GODS, this. Yes, FFS, tell someone if there's a problem. The "oh, it's nothing" trope irritates me especially when it's a character who should be smarter than that. I hate it when incompetence is used to push a story along.
     
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  10. Xoic

    Xoic Prognosticator of Arcana Ridiculosum Contributor Blogerator

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    Some people definitely do that.

    Like any trope or writing device, it can be good or bad depending on how it's handled. If it's used lazily it's basically a hack piece, or at least that aspect of the story is. But if it's done thoughtfully and made interesting it can be good.
     
  11. Gravy

    Gravy Senior Member

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    Currently Reading::
    NOTHING! Because who can stand to read and write at the same time?!
    Yes! This trope is so annoying! If I see it in another film, I am going to scream!! Yeah, if handled well, go for it. But otherwise, please don’t.
     
  12. naruzeldamaster

    naruzeldamaster Senior Member

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    I think the main issue with the trope is this: Perhaps a bit too often the Intelligent/Observant characters often get caught holding the 'idiot ball' for the duration that 'it's nothing' is in play. MC's Childhood friend who seemingly knows them like the back of her hand suddenly becomes oblivious as fuck when MC decides to say 'it's nothing' until the plot actively demands it. Same with other characters usually, and it's not by accident. And it typically takes the entire group surrounding MC and chewing them out to get them to communicate.

    I do think the trope can be used well (and has been, in a couple of games) but the main mistake made is strictly using it to move the plot along. It wouldn't be nearly as irritating if say, the other characters take notice that something is CLEARLY wrong (it usually is) and try to sort out the problem themselves before confronting MC about it. Even if they come to the wrong conclusion, having them discuss and be aware that MC isn't their usual self and actively trying to hide it would take the sting off I think.
     
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  13. Xoic

    Xoic Prognosticator of Arcana Ridiculosum Contributor Blogerator

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    Well done.
     
  14. naruzeldamaster

    naruzeldamaster Senior Member

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    Not quite sure what was well done about the post but a compliment is a compliment ^+^'
    After thinking about the trope for a couple of days I think I narrowed down why I 'hate' it and it feels much better having a solid answer as to why. Writing it down helped me get unfixated on it haha.
    When used well the trope is good and adds tension, but I think a good chunk of the time the author tries to be perhaps too 'clever' and has otherwise smart characters fail to notice things. It's especially irksome when it's the main character being an idiot when other parts of the story show them being reasonably intelligent.
     
  15. Xoic

    Xoic Prognosticator of Arcana Ridiculosum Contributor Blogerator

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    I said that because you switched from "This trope is so stupid" to reasoning out how it can be done better. That's good productive thinking! And at the start of the thread you were just doing some negative, unproductive complaining. :p
     
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  16. naruzeldamaster

    naruzeldamaster Senior Member

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    Ah, I was confused for a second I'm a derp like that heh. Though being able to admit you loathe something (but accept it as a thing) can be healthy in it's own way, and finding out that others feel the same way (and in this case, for the same reason) helps a lot too.
    I posted the exact thread on a gaming forum and got a totally different reaction heh.
    I do like it when it's done well, but most of the time I call what's going to happen from orbit.
    So in a way I like it as much as I hate it, but when I hate it I *really* hate it haha.

    I can be productive when I put my mind to it, just sometimes my current mood (like actual emotional mood, not motivation) can get in the way.
     
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  17. jannert

    jannert Retired Mod Supporter Contributor

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    You want to know the other side of that coin? I have a friend who, nearly every time I meet her face to face, asks me, "What's wrong?" It is INFURIATING, as nothing actually IS wrong! She does it when I answer the phone as well, "What's wrong?" I say nothing (which is bloody true) and she will say, "Oh, your voice sounded strange, tired, upset, sad ...whatever."

    It helps, if you want to play the empathy card, to actually HAVE empathy?

    Bizarre....
     
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  18. Steerpike

    Steerpike Felis amatus Contributor

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    This describes the entire Wheel of Time series.
     
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  19. naruzeldamaster

    naruzeldamaster Senior Member

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    Oh believe me I know the feeling, my mom constantly seems to think I get 'out of sorts' over stuff and thinks something is emotionally wrong. If something is ever 'really' wrong that I can't sort out myself, I think I'd tell them.
    In reality nothing is really wrong, sure I get flustered for a hot minute but I just step away from the problem (which is usually taking a break from a game) and come back to conquer it later.
    Sometimes the thing that infuriates me most only infuriates me for like, ten minutes, after that I get over it until I get mad at it again haha.
    I think the key thing to make this trope 'good' is to find a balance between the extremes.
    You want the companions to show concern but you don't want them to gang up on MC and essentially have an 'intervention by force'
     
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