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  1. TheMyst7885

    TheMyst7885 Active Member

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    Animal that represents rising after defeat?

    Discussion in 'Plot Development' started by TheMyst7885, Sep 28, 2019.

    If someone who tried to do good and make a difference in the world, only to be defeated, kicked down and everything taken away from them, what animal symbol would be the best to use? If it were a guy and they became a loner for a while would a wolf work? Do wolves have anything to do with being pushed out or taken over in defeat and now trying to rise back up on their own like a lone wolf?

    I was going to have it that this guy would eventually team up with a female character that lost everything as well, which she would represent the rising phoenix on fire. If I had a symbolism of wolf and phoenix combined together would that make a good meaning for someone defeated and willing to fight back for a good cause?
     
  2. Simpson17866

    Simpson17866 Contributor Contributor

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    It wouldn't work the way you think it would work , but it could work ;)

    "Lone wolf" is a myth. Wolves are social creatures, like lions. They need their pack for support, and they need to be able to work together.

    And that's where I think the metaphor could come in :) Your guy gets back to his feet to fight again because he had allies to help him lick his wounds to recover faster than he could've on his own.
     
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  3. TheMyst7885

    TheMyst7885 Active Member

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    Yeah I like that! I think that was more at what I was getting at. I knew that lone wolves were some kind of non bealievabe myth but having something to do with being left alone or left for dead, only to be found and helped to rise again from the painful wounds can make sense. Has there ever been a wolf and phoenix metaphor together? I know there's been dragon and phoenix or giger and phoenix. Will wolf and phoenix turn readers away?
     
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  4. Mary Elise

    Mary Elise Senior Member

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    My son recently got his first tattoo and it's symbolic of his leaving CEODD (in disgrace according to him but no one else) and going back. He used a phoenix. He thought about a wolf pack in a circle around a dead wolf rising from the middle but decided it was a little too specific.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  5. Simpson17866

    Simpson17866 Contributor Contributor

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    If not, then there should be :)
     
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  6. TheMyst7885

    TheMyst7885 Active Member

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    Wow that looks amazing! I was thinking of combing in both the wolf and phoenix. I was thinking of creating an injured lone wolf with a phoenix circling around or helping it rise from defeat as a symbol. So not the same as a dead wolf rising from the middle but I guess kind of similar maybe lol.

    And are phoenix represented only for women? I think there is a male counterpart but I keep finding information that it has some mythology of a female rising which is why I was going to have the guy represent the wolf and the girl as the phoenix.
     
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  7. TheMyst7885

    TheMyst7885 Active Member

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    Do you like this idea? Or is it too far fetched?
     
  8. Mary Elise

    Mary Elise Senior Member

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    IIRC phoenix are represented as female because only the female can create new life. Been a long time since Religious History though, so look that up.
     
  9. J.T. Woody

    J.T. Woody Smooth like butter Contributor

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    For some reason, I immediately thought of a bulldog. I know the bulldog has symbolic roots in England and is the symbol of the Marines, but I keep thinking back to reading White Fang where, after White Fang won all of his dog fights, he lost to a bulldog who was stubby, stocky, and didn't look like much. The crowd rooted against it and White Fang beat the snot out of it... but it kept getting up and eventually, its determination, stamina, and unconventional size and girth is what got the best of White Fang.
    It was underestimated, and still hailed victorious.

    You could also do one of a wold howling at a new moon. new moons symbolize new beginnings (like a phoenix), and a lone wolf howling could symbolize it calling out to others. These two together could achieve the same as your phoenix and wolf. These two also make more sense together, personally
     
  10. Mary Elise

    Mary Elise Senior Member

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    Ladyhawk! I remembered the name after leaving of course. It's available on Amazon Prime (I think.) In that one the curse made the male protagonist a wolf by night and the female protagonist a hawk by day.

    Check it out.
     
  11. TheMyst7885

    TheMyst7885 Active Member

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    The bulldog actually sounds pretty cool, not too sure if it has much to symbolize with in mythology but I can look more into it, I was even thinking of the MC guy being short and stocky lol. Not sure yet. I think the wolf and moon has an interesting meaning, it does make sense together.
     
  12. TheMyst7885

    TheMyst7885 Active Member

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    Thanks! I'll check this one out! Does the hawk relate at all to the phoenix?
     
  13. Mary Elise

    Mary Elise Senior Member

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    Just watched it again. Great movie! They don't write them like that anymore. Oh, but it isn't on Prime. Ugh. Why do we even pay for that crap?

    It's more along the wolf/bird theme rather than a phoenix but you might find some inspiration there.
     
  14. LazyBear

    LazyBear Banned

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    Ants will fight to the end without considering their own lives. Doesn't matter if the enemy is many times bigger. The bigger ants in Lapland can craft ladders by biting to overcome obstacles. Even when the head is ripped off, they won't stop biting.
     
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  15. Foxxx

    Foxxx Knight of Faith Contributor

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    Wolves aren't typically "lone" for very long. If they're at the bottom of the pecking order in their pack, they may seem to linger outside the pack majority of the time. It *is* possible they may rise through the ranks. There's also wolves that leave and search for a new pack (which happens to prevent in-breeding) in which case they'll be a "lone wolf" for a time.

    It's not a total myth, but the term is pretty misunderstood in regards to wolves.

    An animal that gets back up after losing a fight? You might consider a lion. Male lions that are removed from their pride for whatever reason will roam by themselves or occasionally with a small group, and sometimes take over another pride.

    It may be too similar to the arc in The Lion King though. Not sure if you care about that; it sounds like you're just thinking symbolically. In any case it's a more likely scenario in nature than with a lone wolf.
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2019
  16. Mary Elise

    Mary Elise Senior Member

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    Now if you want a mammal that roams in packs of juvenile males and becomes aggressive, dolphins fit right in. Most people think dolphins are easygoing, happy creatures and that might be true.

    Professional divers like my eldest know a pod of juveniles can and do kill divers. The pod will surround the diver, sometimes attempt sexual activity with the diver and keep them at depth until they run out of air.

    My son will happily pet a bull shark but he keeps his distance from dolphins.

    Strange but true.
     
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  17. Naomasa298

    Naomasa298 HP: 10/190 Status: Confused Contributor

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    Could you point me to a confirmed report of this?
     
  18. TheMyst7885

    TheMyst7885 Active Member

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    I like lion actually. I was planning to have lion for the bad guy, but maybe if the MC used to be a student of the bad guy who originally had the lion symbol and years later, the bad guy's school had collapsed and vanished, assuming he disappeared so the MC wanted to open his own dojo thinking his teacher was hone or dead and MC decides using the lion symbol but the bad guy returned, overthrew the MC and took back the lion symbol making it more evil? Then the MC now in defeat and wounded needs to rise up and take back what was taken with a female fighter who had some kind of phoenix motif was also deceived and thrown away by the bad guy who she used to work for him, now she is completely against him and they create their own fiery riding phoenix/lion/griffin pride symbol with rising flames? Does this sound cool or make sense? And the bad guy with the lion unites with the bad military viper symbol guy creating their intimidating chimera symbol? Are these all fitting?
     
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2019
  19. TheMyst7885

    TheMyst7885 Active Member

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    I never knew this about dolphins. I always just heard they tend to get very flirty and love rubbing themselves against anyone they meet lol.
     
  20. Foxxx

    Foxxx Knight of Faith Contributor

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    It makes sense. The foremost bit of advice is to not be too heavy-handed with the symbolism. Never let it in the front seat. In fact, don't even let it in the passenger seat. Keep it in the trunk, and only occasionally in the back seat.
     
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  21. Mary Elise

    Mary Elise Senior Member

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    https://www.nytimes.com/1999/07/06/health/evidence-puts-dolphins-in-new-light-as-killers.html

    https://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/columns/straight-dope/article/13045860/can-dolphins-rape-humans-when-animals-attack-sexually

    Not specific to dolphins but included:

    https://www.diversalertnetwork.org/diving-incidents/Diver-was-virtually-swallowed-by-a-whale-shark

    I know, I was surprised too.

    I didn't go looking for the referenced video but I hear it's out there.
     
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2019
  22. TheMyst7885

    TheMyst7885 Active Member

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    I'm confused?? Could you explain it more? Or would it take too long to? Or pm would be easier?

    Wow it was hard to imagine this :(
     
  23. Naomasa298

    Naomasa298 HP: 10/190 Status: Confused Contributor

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    Here's the disclaimer from the website in your first link, EMToast.
    "EMToast is a nonsensical publication intended for entertainment purposes only. All articles contained within EMToast are fiction."

    https://emtoast.com/?page_id=2

    A search for "Tanya Halerfan" only finds direct quotes from the EMToast page. I don't see a single reputable news outlet reporting the story.

    So, call me sceptical.
     
  24. Mary Elise

    Mary Elise Senior Member

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    We were going to go to one of those dolphin things a while back. I have a bottlenose tattoo so it's no secret that I like them. My eldest had a conniption and insisted I stay away. That's when I found out about the dolphins.

    Talk about a rude awakening.
     
  25. Mary Elise

    Mary Elise Senior Member

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    Okay, bad on me for not reading the fine print. I was just doing a fast search.

    The NYT isn't an entertainment site though. Nor is the Divers News Network.
     

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