Antiheroes: How far is too far?

Discussion in 'Character Development' started by Marthix, Aug 14, 2010.

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  1. Islander

    Islander Contributor Contributor

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    If she kills someone just because she's angry and feels like it, it'd be hard for me to sympathise. It'd be easier if she (for example) had a moral code in which one should be ruthless to one's enemies and loyal to one's friends. It might even lend her an aura of nobility.

    But by all means, try it. Either you pull it off or you don't.
     
  2. Aeschylus

    Aeschylus Member

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    I think he could pull it off just fine. The reader might completely disagree with the protagonist, but that doesn't mean that there can't be a level of sympathy. Maybe she simply has no control over her emotions, which provides a weakness that we can feel for. Or maybe this act is symbolic to the reader, by which we might feel admiration for the protagonist, despite her immorality.

    However, there's no reason that the reader has to sympathize everything the antiheroine does. We can be disgusted with her for something but still be captivated or fascinated enough by her character to continue reading. Sympathy is something that only has to occur occasionally. Another good strategy with an antihero is to make the reader feel admiration or respect for him in some way. There are two types of villains: those whom we despise on all levels and root against to the bitter end, and then there are those whom we admire or respect, sometimes even sympathize with. Same applies to antiheroes. But there are some villains that you would never turn into antiheroes--I'm thinking Ayn Rand's villains, who are usually perversions of humanity. No one would use James Taggart from Atlas Shrugged as an antihero/protagonist; the reader feels no respect or sympathy for him, ever, at any point in the novel.
     
  3. HorusEye

    HorusEye Contributor Contributor

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    Brilliant example. To me, he's by far the most likeable character in the books, despite him not having a single likeable trait. It all comes down to understanding what got him into the state he's in.

    If you try to make your heroine evilish for the sake of it, it's probably not gonna work. Instead, get inside the character's head and try to imagine yourself justifying your wrong actions to a point where you end up convincing yourself that they're ok. Now take your reader on the same journey and that'll mark a starting point for the character. It'll show that the character has a heart, even if it's coated in bile.
     
  4. caimomile

    caimomile New Member

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    If you're worrying about your character being not likable because of being an antiheroine, I think you shouldn't worry much.

    Generally speaking, I prefer antiheroes over plain heroes. Why? Because they're not perfect!!!

    I'd much rather read about a character who chose to kill someone in order to survive instead of someone who didn't dare kill anyone (because of chivalry/virtue crap) and still live because the plot/author wanted him to.
     
  5. TobiasJames

    TobiasJames New Member

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    This thread's got me thinking about my favourite anti-heroes and why they work for me. They all share a common theme, so I thought I'd share my realisation. :)

    My favourite anti-heroes:
    Steerpike, from the "Titus Groan" saga (aka "Gormenghast");
    Tyrion Lannister, from "A Song of Ice and Fire";
    "Sylar", from the TV show "Heroes".

    I'd recommend reading/watching any of those to see how an anti-hero is masterfully created and developed as the story goes on. Anyway, these three all have two important things in common.

    Firstly, they are all condemned and reviled by those around them for something that they cannot control, which generates sympathy with the reader. Steerpike is a worthless kitchen boy who's never known his parents, Tyrion is a deformed dwarf with two beautiful, popular siblings, and Sylar has an addiction which forces him to become a killer.

    Secondly, however, they all have a strict moral code guiding their revenge on a society which loathes them, and they plot each stage of their terrible journey with cold precision. The beauty of Steerpike's story is not his rise to power per se, but that it comes at the expense of those who put him down. Every rung of the ladder he climbs involves ruining someone who has abused him in the past.

    So what makes a good anti-hero for me is someone who hates the world with good reason, and is unscrupulous in his/her plotting to redress the balance and rise above his/her persecutors.
     
  6. Islander

    Islander Contributor Contributor

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    I was unable to sympathise with Sylar in Heroes, but I still found him to be a fascinating character, who added to the enjoyment of the series.
     
  7. Lothgar

    Lothgar New Member

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    Some things for consideration:

    Is a hero really a hero, if they do good for all the wrong reasons? Is the arrogant self-absorbed bastard really a hero for saving the weak and helpless, if the only reason he does it is to inflate his own ego, win medals and fame...with no redeeming virtue or actual consideration towards the helpless victims?

    Is a fifteenth century noble, who walls off half his city full of plague victims and burns them to ash a hero for "saving" the other half of his people? Or a mass murderer who killed half his own serfs without any attempt to save them?

    What is the difference between a war hero who faces the enemies of his country on the battlefield and kills large numbers of enemy soldiers...and the trigger happy red neck bastard who finally gets a justifiable opportunity to "get some trigger time on them funny foreigners"?

    Is a werewolf who suffers from the gypsy curse and kills by night the victim, or the villain? Does the werewolf become a hero if he actively seeks out ways to confine himself during the full moon so he doesn't harm anyone?

    Would a hero kill 5,000 people in order to save 100,000 people?

    I think it is not so much WHAT you do...but WHY you do it that makes you a hero. However even that can become problematical. During the Holy Crusades, Christian armies of the faithful marched on the holy land to free Jerusalem from the armies of the infidels...which is rather ironic since the Muslim armies also marched on Jerusalem for exactly the same reason. The whole hero, anti-hero, villain thing really depends on the viewpoint of the character and the reader.
     
  8. afrodite7

    afrodite7 New Member

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    -it depends.there has to be a reason the audience would go with ,just like Annunuel's example.
    -another example would be like john travolta in from paris with love.killing people,handling drugs,ect. but was the 'good guy'.
    -even in my novel,the main characters crash a wedding to kidnap a bride and hold her for ransom,set a demon loose on the antagonists,antagonize the antagonists,hold a princess hostage with a gun to her head,steal from the bad guys,and terroristic threats.

    but they're the 'good guys'. :)
    -an anti hero can be as bad as you want them to be as long as its within consistency with the character's personality,the plot and the situation at hand.the main character can do things dirty,the only difference is the point of view.the main villain in my novel is not actually evil...just obsessive.
     

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