Anyone up for theology?

I wanted to keep my personal beliefs out of this, but since there is another...

Nah, I'm old school Southern Baptist. You know, the Bible-beating, Praise Jesus and all God's people said Amen kinda guys.

My logic concerning atheism is as follows: if religion is a lottery system, you're going to lose if you don't play. Having read the Qu'Ran, Otrah, Bible, and many of the Buddhist doctrines, I find Christianity (more particularly Protestantism) to be the most logical path to follow. All of these books (with the exception of Buddhism's codes) have very, very harsh punishments for non-believers. Being an atheist, one would not really concern themselves too deeply with these consequences I assume, but since you say you've considered the possibilities of Gods (at least, most of you claim that), then you can come to the reasoning that if you are wrong, you are completely and utterly screwed. If you are right, you're not going to care, seeing as how you just cease to exist, right? If I'm wrong, same thing. But if I happen to be right, then I get to walk streets of gold FOREVER BABY!!! WOOOOOHHHHH!!!!! However, upon my righteousness, it's very unfortunate for you atheistic individuals, as you will be an unidentifiable burning lump of poo on the bottom of a burning lake of sulfur. Ouch.

That's the "long and short" of my feelings.

 

My dad was raised old school southern baptist. I'm pentecostal. Mostly... There's debate.

And that's how i feel.
"but if i'm wrong, then. i just cease to exist. like you do. But if I'm right..."

I do not wish this to sound vain or "holier than thou" in ANY way.

 

I've always disliked this line of reasoning, as it reduces the wisdom and indeed the social value of a religion, and replaces it with a simple threat of punishment. Rather than reaching a decision to believe based on the teachings of a God/their followers, one chooses to worship so that they may escape the wrath of the divine. Furthermore, I find it hard to conceive of a supposed higher being which is so petty as to inflict eternal torture on someone simply because they do not, with no evidence of the being's existence presented to them in life, grovel at its feet.

 

Okay.

What separates a Pentecost from a Baptist?

 

I think it's wrong to believe "just in case" or "to be safe." Maybe that's not what you were saying, but that's the impression I got. If you want to believe, you have to do it because you really believe. Being a Christian is not about avoiding consequences or having the last laugh, it's about having faith in Christ.

 

Hahaha. The name?

 

Good answer. I say I am Southern Baptist because that's where I congregate, but I am truly nondenominational. However, there are no nondenominational churches, so I am forced to pick between Mormonism and Baptism...Great options.

 

Yes, I do beleive in a higher power. My religious inclinations lead me towards middle eastern and Buddhist mysticism, mostly, with existential motivations. Tried Christianity for a long time, but I had to admit the ritual of "eat my flesh, drink my blood" thingy never rang fully true for me. I love the Abrahamic faiths, but I do have serious doubts as to the beleif that Jesus was the Messiah.

Lately I've been getting back into my mediatation practices.

I'm not a part of any organized form of worship (church etc) becuase I have a personal beleif that it is the organizational aspect that is largely responisible for the dilution of doctrine.

Just a look into my own private life and thoughts......

 

I agree with most of the views expressed by skeptics in this discussion. I also consider myself to be a well informed atheist. Over the course of much reading and discussion and internal debate, I've encountered a good many arguments for and against. Some I agree with; others I deem to be shaky (on both sides of the debate). But in the end, my own personal (and very simple) reasoning has always guided my beliefs.

As a child, there were many things I found objectionable in religious doctrine. As another poster said, when I matured somewhat, I was able to see the symbolism and appreciate the ideas in new ways. There is a good deal of wisdom in any sacred text. But my main issue from that period has stuck with me to the present day: the unfortunate depiction of God as a merciless and frightening figure. As other posters have also said, I can't accept that image of him. The God I have come to know, regardless of whether I believe in him or not, is infinitely wise and understanding. If there is a God out there, that's how I think of him.

Within the past few years, another thought came to mind. I've always held to the belief that you can only expect to receive what you earn. How, then, can I possibly earn an eternity of anything in one lifetime, or even a million lifetimes? What is a trillion years in the face of eternity? The idea that I could earn an endless life of endless bliss in a mere eighty years or so, is also impossible for me to accept. It conflicts with my work ethic.

But here's the ultimate reason: I don't want eternity in heaven or hell. It sounds dreadful to me. Eternity anywhere, even in a place infinitely large and varied, would become unbearable to me. I can't even imagine it. Like Piers Anthony, (check out his book, On a Pale Horse – it's good!) I'd rather have oblivion. There was a scene in the book where Death is called to acquire a soul, but the dying man (representing the author) was an atheist. Believers were sorted by Death himself into heaven or hell; the atheist simply vanished into nothing, as was his wish.

I can't imagine living in a place where everything and everyone is fundamentally good. Maybe that sounds like an odd concern, but think of it like a story you are writing. We're apt to judge a main character boring if he doesn't have any darkness in his soul. As writers, we say that without conflict there is no story. I feel the same in relation to life. Without a bit of wickedness, whether it be my own or that of others, to spice things things up, my life would be excruciating. Love is but one aspect of passion; to truly feel alive, I need to be free to experience the entire spectrum.

There's more, but this is growing a bit longer than I intended. I'll conclude in saying that whatever you believe, if it makes you happy--truly happy--it's worth believing in. Happiness is my deity, and the pursuit of total, lasting happiness is infinitely complicated in itself. There are as many roads to that destination as there are people in the world.

 

I do believe in a higher power, God if you will. But I think maybe there is more than one God, and there are things we will never comprehend. I would love to just know everything. What created us, what created what created us, and so on. There has to be a begining, to everything. Even God had a begining.
I personally dont believe you have to go to church to pray to God (I pray in the shower), and while I like to read the bible, I take things expressed in it more as metephor, rather than literal. Such as Jonah and the whale. I think the whale is figurative, and not an actual whale. Perhaps he was in a really dark place in his life, and then he came out of that. I dont know if I'm right, but that's what I think anyway. I also think my God forgives, because no one is perfect. If it werent for mistakes, how would we learn?

I cant define myself as one religion, I find many of them fascinating, and Buddism is one I relate to alot, but I believe in Christianity as well. I just want to lead a good life, and I belive in God, and hope that by treating others well, and doing good deeds, and trying to be the best I can be will pay off in the end. If there turns out to be nothing, then so be it, but atleast I tried. (minus some cursing and a few punches thrown at loud mouthed men. LOL)

 

Pentecostals say "Amen!" more, both during their services and in everyday conversation, but they aren't as good at singing.

 

I don't believe in God, but I don't believe I know everything, either.

 

I have quite a big answer for this.


Do I believe in a higher power? I assume you mean a supreme being or a deity. The answer is 'no'. I consider myself an 'agnostic atheist Buddhist', the 3 words together confuse some people because the first two words often go misunderstood. 'Agnostic' is usually a term used for 'in between atheist and theist', but its actual meaning is that an agnostic is somebody who believes that a supreme being isn't proven or disproven. This means you get agnostic theists and agnostic atheists.

The opposite of course is 'gnostic'. 'Atheism' gets a lot of stick from some places because it is seen as 'hating religion' or 'turning your back', it's not even a religion as some claim and requires no faith as is 'disbelieving' and it is often connected with science, evolution and the big bang, because some of the most out-spoken atheists like Richard Dawkins talks about those things. But a lot of scientists, including evolutionary ones, are Christian, Darwin himself was a Christian, though many say that Darwin took back his theory when he died, this information is untrue.

All 'atheism' means is, "disbelief in a deity, supreme being or God", it's none of those other things - though I try to have science and reason with me a lot of the time. That's where Buddhism comes in, it's a religion (though not always considered a religion) without a God, hence my title.


The reason why I'm an atheist is that I was a Christian when I was about 9 and I started questioning it and found myself not believing in his existence anymore. It started off with the Problem with evil and now I just see no reason to believe in one, as there's no evidence and there are so many to choose from that it makes the argument of Pascal's Wager useless (the idea of believing, 'Just in case'), I am happy to let people believe in what they like as long as they're not hurting nobody in the process (hence I'm not a fan of fundamentalist or extremist groups), I don't like religious people who are dishonest when it comes to debate, which I have often found and I don't like being preached to. For me, that still counts as 'hurting people'.

I dislike the creation vs evolution arguments because often or not I find the creationist doesn't have the first clue about what they're arguing against. I mean that as no insult or a question of intelligent, it's just I see so many misconceptions from that side of things. Especially when it comes to atheism there's some quite offensive assumptions, which I think perhaps merit some of the 'angry atheists' out there. One thing I don't like is the claim that we should know everything or can answer ever question, the problem is that religion and science are different - science makes observations and makes connections between them and religion gives answers, whilst philosophy questions them.


I have many religious friends and I would never let our differences come between us as they wouldn't with me. A good person is a good person no matter their background or belief, so why should I judge a good person for anything else?

 

I'm an apathetic agnostic/atheist. All sorts of factors led into that, but those stories are way too long to put here.

 

I am an atheist. Not an agnostic, either, I am quite secure in my beliefs. Ironically, it was Confirmation classes for the Congregational faith that brought me to that realization.

I have no need to proselytize my beliefs to others, so I won't go into the thought processes that led me to them. For the same reason, I have no interest in entering a debate on the topic.

In my experience, those who shout the loudest to convince others do so to drown out the mocking monologue of their own doubts.

 

I'm an athiest since my early teens, and confident with it. I hold nothing against anyone for having a faith-based belief system, once they accept that I'm entitled to my own life-based philosophy.

 

I agree.

And my thoughts on the whole "If I'm wrong, I stop existing, but if I'm right..." discussion earlier is this-I don't think that a person should go to heaven/hell based on which religion they belonged to or how devoutly they worshiped God. I think it all depends on what kind of a person you were, whether you tried your best to be a decent human being or not. That's one of the big reasons I stopped going to church. The church that I went to was really big on "if you don't belong to this church, there's no way you can get into heaven" and I really disagreed with that thought process. Me belonging to a religion doesn't make me any better of a person than people who don't belong to it. Just my opinion on the subject.

 

I follow more of the 'philosophical' religions (Buddhism, Confucianism, Taoism), rather than the more 'faith-based' religions (Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Hinduism, etc.). I find that the philosophical religions focus much more on the betterment of the self (which the world always needs more of, in my opinion), versus the more blind-faith, "If I believe everything will be okay when I die" approach of the faith-based religions (now, no one get offended, I know I'm simplifying a great deal).

I think I view it more as a mental pursuit, rather than something to turn to for stability, reason, etc. For me, there are too many random events and horrible happenings for me to honestly be able to say that there's an all-loving God up above. There's just not enough evidence for me to subscribe to that notion, so I rejected those religions when I was pretty young.

I'm particularly drawn to Buddhism, especially Zen Buddhism. I've been meaning to establish a regular daily meditation time for a while now, but as it stands right now I simply do it whenever I get time. Taoism is also very interesting. I like them not because I need some personal meaning in my life - I'm perfectly happy believing that the world is governed by nothing more than physics and natural law - but because, like I said earlier, they're designed for the betterment of the self.

I don't personally care whether the world was created in six days or whether it was created by random natural chaos...it simply has no relevance to my life. I don't need a set of moral principles to live my life by with the threat of eternal punishment if I break them either - nor do I need the promise of eternal reward if I follow them.

The wonderful thing about Taoism, Buddhism, etc. is that you don't strictly need to to follow only one, like the Western religions. Anyone can benefit from the wisdom and teachings of these "religions," there's nothing exclusive about them.

Cheers,
~Christian

 

Wow, five pages sans ICBM's.... intriguing.


Theology is not for me. I don't even like pasting a label to myself like atheist, because somehow it makes me feel that I have given in and played within the strange land of this epistemology since the word atheist is a label from within the epistemology of religion.

Since it is an epistomology, it has it's own rules and regulations which have as a defining trait the fact that they do not answer to reason.

I avoid the unreasonable at all cost.

 

What's ICBM?

 

ICBM = Intercontinental Ballistic Missile

Google is your friend.

Something like that. I feel like calling myself an atheist would be like calling myself a carnivore, though undoubtedly that's a poor analogy on several levels.

 

Yeah, that's what I found when I googled it, but I wasn't sure if that was what he meant.

 

I think he meant flame war.

I've always seen myself as a deist. In that I believe in an some abstract version of God but I don't think any scripture or specific mythology contains intrinsic truth.

 

If that's the logic behind your choice of religion, you're going to be right there in the burning lake of sulfur alongside us atheists. And please throw away the notion that you're better than everyone, you're just scared from what I gather.

 

I believe in God. I've been raised a Catholic. I don't feel the need to confess my sins or go to church every Sunday. To me, as long as I don't do anything particularly horrible in life, I'll be happy. I would rather die a Catholic to find out there is no God, than live an Atheist to find out there is one.

Sounds like I'm covering all my bases, but I'm not saying one month I'll practice Islam, then next Hinduism, but, I was raised a Catholic and I'm not going to turn on what I've been raised to believe in because it's that easy to do so...