Art vs Marketability

Discussion in 'Traditional Publishing' started by superpsycho, Mar 2, 2012.

  1. superpsycho

    superpsycho New Member

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    And now we get to the heart of the issue, being honest with ourselves, often something you learn with age. From there being honest with others. Writing is communication, and a form designed to be persevered and distributed. It is both art and science. To say we write for ourselves is deception. We write to communicate but individually we each need to figure out what is it we wish to communicate and why.
     
  2. Phoenix Hikari

    Phoenix Hikari New Member

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    Seeing that many of us have said that we DO write for our own pleasure, I think this comment is not very appealing. Some actually do write just because they find it fun and not for the sole reason of entertaining others, maybe to write that story we always wished to read. I'm not sure I agree with you generalizing like that.
     
  3. GeorgiaB

    GeorgiaB Member

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    Are we only talking about story-telling or general writing? The bulk of my writing is endless personal journals locked in a fire safety box, which include tons of poetry (and probably stories) that I would never show anyone. I was simply writing to learn about myself and my own experiences and to process the ups and downs of my life. The writing is important to me but every now and then I have a fear that if I die my journals will be read, and that troubles me (probably an arrogant thought and not so much because my writing is scandalous by any means, just personal). I have always dreamed of publishing, but certainly not everything!

    Georgia
     
  4. superpsycho

    superpsycho New Member

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    Writing for pleasure is a very general statement. What makes it a pleasure? You touched on one of the reasons I write. Simply because what I read falls short. In my case specifically the science goes way beyond what I consider realistic. But I still want it to be enjoyable so when I'm satisfied I'll let family, friends and even strangers read it all, otherwise I'll have no way to know if I've succeeded in my goal, seeing how my opinion is biased. Will I be disappointed if they don't like it? Absolutely, but how else will I get any better. The more opinions I get the better the odds I'll get some good advice. Bad reviews aren't going to kill me and at my age they sure don't scare me. Hell, I've had to disarm stuff that was about to go boom in my face and I'm still here, so I could care less if there were hundreds of people pointing and laughing at how silly I'm am. Which I wouldn't be surprised if some people did behind my back these days.
     
  5. Nakhti

    Nakhti Banned

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    LOL! That's one way of putting it - it's all about perspective, huh? Great attitude :D
     
  6. Frog

    Frog New Member

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    @cogito, I was thinking along the same lines. If a tree falls in the woods, does it make a sound? If art is never seen, is it really art? And if you are the only one who ever reads your work, you're still an audience; so if the artist is also the audience, is it still art? I dunno.

    I tend to write to get published (ironically), but I've found my writing has a lot more depth when I write things I don't intend to show anybody. I usually do, just for the record. To me, writing something you have no emotional attachment simply for financial gain is less prostitution than selling something that's very personal to you. That's the biggest block I come to; my best writing (or what I think is my best writing) is usually too personal to sell.
     
  7. Carthonn

    Carthonn Active Member

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    My purpose in writing is to entertain. My purpose in reading is to be entertained, not to be intellectual or fashionable. There is a sense of duty to share entertaining honest stories with others. Tweaking for fame or fear lacks truth and courage. There is no shame in being honest and true, only greatness.
     
  8. superpsycho

    superpsycho New Member

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    Your best writing is to personal to share? I tell you honestly if everyone felt that way this world would be very dull indeed. You think great actors hold back. I once had a guy hold a gun to my head and threaten to shoot me when I was 16. I was as scared as anyone can get I tell you truthfully and Ive been scared like that more then once. But I sure have no qualms using that fear in story's. Everyone has felt fear to some degree, felt shame, felt love. Not everyone is welling to share it but that's what makes great film and great literature. It also makes us a little more human and less animal. If some people can't take it for what it is then I only feel sad for them. Life is way to short to hold back.
     
  9. shadowwalker

    shadowwalker Contributor Contributor

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    The way I see it (and obviously this is only my POV for whatever that's worth), if one is writing only for themselves, that writing will be seen by others only if the author is dragged kicking and screaming to the audience. It's personal. I have several stories like that. I'd rather burn them than show them to others because they belong to me alone. However, I also have written a lot more fanfic, and I'm working on projects for commercial publishing. The fanfic was in between writing for myself and writing for an audience - I had my own agenda for writing it, and polishing my writing was one of them. That others liked it (critical others) helped me as much as it entertained them.

    Will I write to a market? Sure. I want to get published. Will I write something I don't like, that I'm not interested in, that I'm not proud to put out for the world, just to get published? No way. Like anyone who wants to do what they love and get paid for it, whether it's writing or woodworking or consulting or anything else - there are compromises to be considered. Some we will accept, others we won't.
     
  10. Nakhti

    Nakhti Banned

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    I can identify with this. The stuff that is for MY own personal enjoyment alone is usually just way too embarrassing to put out there - the really personal stuff reveals a little too much of our deepest desires, fears and personality quirks to share ;)

    Writing with a particular readership in mind tends to focus your storytelling and give you a specific brief in mind. I don't think that makes it any less 'true' or cheapens it in any way. I'm still writing from a place somewhere inside me, about things that matter to me and I think are important enough to want to get out there - otherwise I wouldn't bother at all, would I?
     
  11. Tesoro

    Tesoro Contributor Contributor

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    as for myself I wouldn't want to share anything but my best work with other people.
     
  12. Erato

    Erato New Member

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    When you read a book, you can tell how good it is. When I read my work, I judge how good it is in the same way. It's hard to explain what makes a work really good; it's like looking at paintings. These are professional; those are not. It's the critic's own preference and experience in quality.
     
  13. superpsycho

    superpsycho New Member

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    Well I know what I like but I may be simple compared to the majority of people. I've read books because they got glowing reviews and found them dreadful. Books others didn't like I enjoyed. I admit I'm really weird but I'm comfortable in my weirdness. From experience I think most people are more then a little curious as to where they fit on the scale of weirdness.
     
  14. Elgaisma

    Elgaisma Contributor Contributor

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    Like others I tend to write what I like to read. I do tend to give my stories contraversial elements that make them more difficult to sell. (one was not intended)

    I love my work being read, but my best work is on my hard drive currrently only read by a few. More have read earlier drafts and I get a real kick out of my stories and characters gaining a life of their own. One character I didn't even know was black until readers started pointing out she was. I cannot get anyone to see my first MC as an ugly, pathetic, wimp lol my readers keep telling me off about calling him that. Little things like when someone said she spat out her drink in a mix of laughter and OMG at the first line of one of my stories, they are fantastic to hear.

    When people online have bothered to read over 30,000 words I have written etc
     
  15. superpsycho

    superpsycho New Member

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    When you do something others appreciate it gives you a thrill no matter who you are or how much you say you do it for yourself. The first time I walked through an engineering department of a company and saw my work posted on the walls of several cubicles it was a shock but extremely satisfying. When people you respect, respect your work it really means a lot.
     
  16. Daniel_Allan

    Daniel_Allan New Member

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    I had quite a following after letting strangers from bookshops and University read some of my books. Many of them read my entire works (7 novels, 4 novellas). I didn't shop them around because I already have a career. I don't have a cowardly motive. I started reading and writing after high-school to combat the damage to my speech by dyslexia.

    As a writer this person should learn the difference between a general emotion and what they personally feel. nobody will relate to your book if you try to talk for them but don/t know how.
     
  17. Elgaisma

    Elgaisma Contributor Contributor

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    For me it is the validation that the work I've been doing is worth it. I'm sort of published now with a few children's short stories and some people pay me to write best man speeches with original stories in them, but I've got a long way to go with the novels and scripts.

    The internet feedback is useful, for me it has given me a thicker skin and I can take most things, but also a lot of joy.

    Everything is written in the hope it will sell and give me a career. Even though it is fun to do. Well except the small pieces of flash fiction for forum challenges etc Feedback from agents has suggested my fantasy has good commercial potential but a certain element makes them wary of taking a gamble on it. Fingers crossed for one that will, because I refuse to change the element.
     
  18. superpsycho

    superpsycho New Member

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    Publishers apparently have a tendency to be wary this days. Have a friend trying to get published but even with a known author doing the forward, publishers don't want to take a chance until he has more of a following and built some credentials on the subject.

    Like I said when I'm done I'll gladly show my work around. I won't seek to get it published but I'm sure if my daughter likes it she'll do an e-book. I'm retired with a decent income so I don't need to worry about that. If something comes of it then I'll be pleased as punch.
     
  19. larryprg

    larryprg New Member

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    I don't quite agree with keeping a story in your head. Putting it on paper (or in the computer) helps clarify and filter the confusion and storms that often plague our thoughts.

    Also, once it's out, you can make room for newer things.

    That is, truth as the artist sees it. One person's truth is unfortunately often another person's lie.

    Often writers that compose for profit tend to be miserable failures. Writers that create for themselves are often colossal successes.
     
  20. Cogito

    Cogito Former Mod, Retired Supporter Contributor

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    Putting a story on paper is like copy and paste, not cut and paste. It remains in your thoughts. If anything, its presence becomes all the larger for all the work that goes into the writing process.
    The artist's truth is what matters here. Most important of all is not lying to yourself. To thine own self be true.

    Either you get it, or you don't.
     
  21. superpsycho

    superpsycho New Member

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    "Ain't that the truth sometimes" he said shaking his head in wonder. :D
     
  22. Elgaisma

    Elgaisma Contributor Contributor

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    I'm kind of in the same boat. I now have a reasonable sized following for all three of my main stories, so I will just Kindle them if I can't get them published. Publishers still go for new blood but they are very wary and have become more conservative.

    The agents I've approached have been encouraging though as I haven't tried many since I completely overhauled it, but it has got personal comments rather than standard rejection. Lack of credentials has been less of an issue than a Lord of the Rings style fantasy with a contemporaryish feel. My Gandalf character is addicted to texting, because he finds it less traumatic than using peoples minds.
     
  23. superpsycho

    superpsycho New Member

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    LOL Now that is nice of him. Sounds like a fun read that is for sure.
     
  24. Dubya

    Dubya New Member

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    I am probably an oddity among the writers on this forum, as I had no experience, (or ambition to write), before completing a novel purely as a new year resolution to "do something radically different in my life!" As I had only really read car and truck mags, and the occasional cheap detective story, I decided a murder/mystery was the way to go, and it was finished and published as an ebook exactly a year to the day after the decision was made. At the time, commercial/artistic/therapeutic balance wasn't a concern, but I have now become addicted to the process of writing, and continue to write for pleasure. However, I have become conscious of a new desire to one day complete a really good and pleasing novel, one that would satisfy not only myself,but also a publisher, and ultimately the public. It makes me wonder if anyone can truly say they write only for themselves, without at least half an eye on commercial success?
     
  25. superpsycho

    superpsycho New Member

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    I'm curious as to people's reasons either way. Yes, I'm sure there are those that do write for themselves but I doubt it's just whim. I can understand being afraid to share. Peer pressure is a powerful thing and few people go out of there way to look bad. Like mentioned earlier I had a guy point a gun at my head when I was 16. The fact was at the time I had three friends with me and I'll tell you the truth I was probably more afraid of looking stupid in front of them then the gun, otherwise I might been crying and peeing my pants.

    I can imagine some just wanting to exercise their brain. I'm sure there are those you feel closed in and need a outlet to express themselves. I'm just naturally curious and like to find reason for things so I gently poke and prod asking question to see the response.
     

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