Tags:
  1. John Calligan

    John Calligan Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2015
    Messages:
    1,479
    Likes Received:
    1,683

    Barely Unreliable Narrators

    Discussion in 'Character Development' started by John Calligan, Jan 25, 2019.

    These are the first three sentences of a WIP:


    Objectively in my mind as the writer, this is the statue:



    [​IMG]

    Just a plain old boring old statue of Demeter. It didn't move. It wasn't made for him. The POV character see's it this way because of his feelings about the goddess.

    So, is this an unreliable narrator? If no other contrasting description of the statue is given, does the text supersede the author's idea about the statue? Can a single POV character give an unreliable description of something if that description is never challenged in the text? Can the author die?
     
  2. ChickenFreak

    ChickenFreak Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2010
    Messages:
    15,262
    Likes Received:
    13,084
    I'm not seeing the unreliable part. Do you mean "as if to keep them from me and mine"? To me, that's not an unreliable narrator; the "as if" makes it clear that it's the opinion of the narrator. To me, 'unreliable' means that you can't tell that it's their opinion.
     
  3. Wreybies

    Wreybies Thrice Retired Supporter Contributor

    Joined:
    May 1, 2008
    Messages:
    23,826
    Likes Received:
    20,815
    Location:
    El Tembloroso Caribe
    ...or that the narrator flat-out lies or withholds important information. That the narrator is poetic and prone to simile or metaphor is not something I would put under the umbrella of unreliable.
     
  4. John Calligan

    John Calligan Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2015
    Messages:
    1,479
    Likes Received:
    1,683
    I was thinking more of the word "clutching," since it gives me a certain idea about the statue.
     
  5. Lilith Fairen

    Lilith Fairen Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2018
    Messages:
    66
    Likes Received:
    92
    This is entirely bog-standard writing and has nothing to do with "reliability" of the narrator.
     
    John Calligan likes this.
  6. John Calligan

    John Calligan Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2015
    Messages:
    1,479
    Likes Received:
    1,683
    I had to look up "bog standard," and I am like, just so fucking happy to have someone call a thing I wrote "bog standard" instead of all the other things it is normally called lol.
     
  7. ChickenFreak

    ChickenFreak Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2010
    Messages:
    15,262
    Likes Received:
    13,084
    I still think that's well within normal narrator interpretation of reality, rather than unreliable narrator.
     
  8. John Calligan

    John Calligan Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2015
    Messages:
    1,479
    Likes Received:
    1,683
    I guess that's the spectrum I'm not clear on. At what point does the window the narrator sees reality through become colored enough that he is no longer reliable?

    Or does "unreliable" only refer to narrators intentionally deceiving the reader?
     
  9. BayView

    BayView Huh. Interesting. Contributor

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2014
    Messages:
    10,462
    Likes Received:
    11,689
    I don't think the deceit has to be intentional, but I think it has to be substantial.

    We're pretty used to narrative being flavoured with the POV of the narrator; I think you need to go beyond flavour.
     
    jannert and John Calligan like this.
  10. jannert

    jannert Retired Mod Supporter Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2013
    Messages:
    17,674
    Likes Received:
    19,889
    Location:
    Scotland
    I don't think a writer has to be TOO concerned about whether their narrator is 'reliable' or not. Reliability/unreliability is more a study/review issue than a writing issue—like naming 'theme,' etc.

    The writer just narrates a story, through a character's POV. I reckon it's up to the readers to determine whether the narrator's thoughts and feelings and perspective should be taken at face value.

    Of course it's fun for a writer to deliberately create an unreliable character for story purposes. But I wouldn't worry too much if your reliable character says flowery things or exaggerates. (That's different from an out-and-out lie or deliberate omission.) Colourfulness is just human nature.
     
    John Calligan likes this.
  11. EdFromNY

    EdFromNY Hope to improve with age Supporter Contributor

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2010
    Messages:
    5,101
    Likes Received:
    3,203
    Location:
    Queens, NY
    In one of my early attempts at a novel, I wrote (in 1st person) about someone who had suffered a grievous loss in his teen years, a close friend with whose sister my mc was in love, and who was sent away shortly after her brother died. One of the subplots was of a young man trying to find his father many years later and turning to my mc for help. The twist is that the young man is my mc's son. But the only way to make it a twist was to hide the fact that he and the girl had slept together, which I really couldn't do in my usually-preferred 3rd limited (several years ago, Tom Rachman got taken to task in a review because a POV character had withheld a key fact in her life until the end, even though she was aware of it all along). So, I used 1st person, with the idea that my mc was so traumatized over losing the love of his life at such a tender age that he blocked her memory from his conscious mind.

    I think that is an example of an unreliable narrator.
     
    jannert and John Calligan like this.
  12. Fallow

    Fallow Banned

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2019
    Messages:
    617
    Likes Received:
    359
    There is a world of difference between allusions/metaphor and deception. The narrator would be unreliable if they made a more factual claim that turned out not to be true, like calling a real person a statue when the narrator is not using a figure of speech. Metaphorical language doesn't count.
     
    John Calligan likes this.
  13. deadrats

    deadrats Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2016
    Messages:
    6,088
    Likes Received:
    7,421
    I think an unreliable narrator has a need to tell the story in such a way. The presentation of the events is slightly off and the reader should be able to pick up on this even if the narrator is lying to himself or herself.
     
    John Calligan likes this.
  14. J.D. Ray

    J.D. Ray Member Supporter Contributor

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2018
    Messages:
    657
    Likes Received:
    668
    Location:
    Oak Harbor, Washington, USA
    Several of Daniel Keys Moran's novels rely on the perspective of a godlike character, "Name Storyteller", who tells you right up front he's a liar. Periodically throughout the text, he'll say things like, "When I told you that bit about that one thing, I was lying. I lied because it was convenient at the time, and here I tell you something that contradicts it." The reader may or may not figure out whether the contradictory thing is a lie as well. It establishes a sense of "meta-mystery" in the story.
     
  15. renkay

    renkay Banned

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2019
    Messages:
    4
    Likes Received:
    1
    Your novel looks interesting. Recently i was interested in writing own stories, but i need to improve my grammar skills. Studying was funny and interesting. Btw I was not so big expert in writing thesis and essays at school. So, I used some help with writing them.
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice