This old lady was quoting to me the ‘sweet nothings’ of a boyfriend from 50 years ago... ‘Wherever you goeth...I shall goeth... and wherever....’ he would whisper lines to her ear... ...and the way she recalled the words in such a faded memory was very beautiful. I ‘looked it up’ expecting a sonnet or famous poet - but it’s a fairly well-known paragraph from Ruth...[verse-doh]. How does the quote tie in to notions of romantic love? Or was the lad simply repeating lines from Sunday School/ giving it his own spin. Thank you [apols for italics]
Hi-- The entire section provides the clues you need. Oh, and in Judaism it's very difficult to convert so Ruth would've been put through quite a lot in order to be wed to a Jewish man. It's shorthand for commitment despite hardship.
Yeah, but I was too thick to find it/work it out. So maybe the boy inherited the quotation from his folks and it’s not so romantic and more a miserable/meagre/Methodist maybe/grey vision of gruel nutrition/death in childbirth/factory hooter kind of lifestyle mission statement heralding from the 1790s/1820s coal-faced working classes.
Heh. If this was what he was actually saying to her and he was being serious, then he didn't understand the -eth endings. But it didn't matter because she thought it was romantic and appreciated these "sweet nothings", that's what counts. Here's the quote from the KJV, since it's one of the few that retain the -eth endings and other non-modern word usages and so I figure this is where he got the quote. Ruth 1:16-17 And Ruth said, Intreat me not to leave thee, or to return from following after thee: for whither thou goest, I will go; and where thou lodgest, I will lodge: thy people shall be my people, and thy God my God: Where thou diest, will I die, and there will I be buried: the Lord do so to me, and more also, if ought but death part thee and me. Notice there are no -eth endings in this passage. Ruth used the -est ending: goest, lodgest, diest Now, grammatically, I'm not much of one to speak since I am absolutely horrible at it. However, I do have a little knowledge concerning non modern word endings such as -eth and -est. If someone tried to speak romantic "sweet nothings" to me and misused -eth and other non modern words, I wouldn't be hearing the romance, I'd be too distracted by the improper usage of the words! haha! It would be doubly worse if I was reading a book or poem that misused the words. The -est endings signify second person singular present and past tense indicative of verbs.The -eth endings are third person singular present indicative of verbs. (thanks dictionary!) As a general rule, the -eth endings in modern usage signifies -es or -s so the modern usage of goeth would be goes. So taking the quote from Mr. Sweet Nothings, he was saying: "Wherever you goes, I shall goes." Also note that Ruth is speaking to her mother in law not a romantic partner, although the quote is often used romantically and in marriage vows because it is a promise to not leave another person no matter the difficulty, as Mary Elise mentioned above. Basically Naomi's husband and sons died, leaving her and her daughters in law widows. Naomi decided to return to her homeland and her daughters in law wanted to go with her. Naomi told them that the cultural and religious differences could cause them not to be able to remarry or have good lives so she told them not to go with her. One daughter in law decided she was right and returned home. Ruth's bond with Naomi was so strong she was willing to face whatever difficulties that lay ahead and thus she gave that beautiful promise to Naomi.
Yeah, it was 'me' clipping the wrong tense endings, not the lad. SHAME ...So the extract is used in wedding vows...as a reading?
Depends on the wedding. Couples who write their own vows often use it. During a Catholic wedding that section may be used as a reading. It really just depends.
This is from a newer version of the Bible called The Message: 16-17 - But Ruth said, “Don’t force me to leave you; don’t make me go home. Where you go, I go; and where you live, I’ll live. Your people are my people, your God is my god; where you die, I’ll die, and that’s where I’ll be buried, so help me God—not even death itself is going to come between us!” Were you thinking of using this in a short (or perhaps the essence of the experience) or were you just curious?
I think I was...originally of the jolly hoh-hoh, blog...mission...series...type. ...but then...in my mind...I got to thinking of a particular dour Yorkshireness...and whilst the anecdote probably heralds from Sheffield...I got myself stuck in...or on 19c Methodist chapels of the Yorkshire east coast, God-fearing and grey and sodden and only the smell of Bible rice paper to cheer the soul, [after fishing all week] everything bleak...the way my mother fears Bridlington (1960s/boomer affliction...) Anyway I've had so little success with the writes when I do take on 'my father's voice' - using the archaic 'I were' and such-like. Maybe I'll go research a heap of folk expressions of the 19/early 20c? Miserable 'Viking' sayings - 'Nobody likes smart Alec, ubdub-dub/thanks for the grubb..' - all that stuff.
THAT is an alliterative mouthful. I'm duly impressed. You're on a slippery slope. Pretty soon it will be headline gigs at poetry readings, polite applause and all.
The scene from The Prince of Tides in which Savannah's two brothers are attending her first public poetry reading just popped into my head. Thank you!
What gets missed in the modern translations, and isn't reflected in the passage as Laughing Rabbit quoted it, was the beauty of the parallelism in the original Hebrew: And Ruth said, Intreat me not to leave thee, / or to return from following after thee: for whither thou goest, / I will go; and where thou lodgest, / I will lodge: thy people shall be my people, / and thy God my God: Where thou diest, / will I die, and there will I be buried Note how the last line breaks the structure, as a sort of coda (as Robert Claiborne put it). There's a lot of that parallelism in the Old Testament, because it's a hallmark of Hebrew poetry. The translators of the King James Version were savvy enough to try to preserve it.
Yes, very beautiful. ... 1...More...that I was out of my depth with this re the various contexts...especially in Judaism...and I need another layer of research. Or maybe like I've just discovered 'Here Comes the Bride' or Pachelbel? 2 Or try and put it another way...locating the 'essence' of something - like when you discover 'Johnny Cash' music for the first time, and whoop, [only by way of example] but to those living it at the time this was fogeyish/reactionary music, and its dull resurrection by a subsequent generation is the most tired cliche to them...etc...apols J Cash. 3 And I was hesitant or confused in celebrating the 'beauty' or precious nature of something - like in a scene - when its essence might lend more to the arranged marriage in darkest Merthyr valley horrorscape... ... [Not very elegant post :/] verbal diarrhoea
Hi! Spoiler I don't mean to start anything here but I took enough Hebrew at university to translate Bereish't 6:18-7:10 from English into Hebrew and there are some epic translation problems in the KJ Bible. For example, the verse "7And Moses was an hundred and twenty years old when he died: his eye was not dim, nor his natural force abated." (Deuteronomy 34:7) translates in Hebrew to say (turn on Rashi's commentary on the page): I like the KJ for the language flow. It really is beautiful. The Lord's Prayer in the KJV is superior in literary form and honestly flows better than any other English translation, particularly when read aloud (did that at a friend's father's funeral Mass.) But translating an ancient Semitic language to English is always tricky and things like tenses, etc. can be tough. A lot simply cannot be translated. Rabbi Telushkin translates that same section I quoted from Rashi as "Moses could still get an erection" and he has a good case for that understanding. And I am probably way out in left field. If so, I beg forgiveness.
No, I was trying to keep up with your brain. Asides from the two hasidic chaps busking Pink Floyd in Tel Aviv central that was as near as I could get with the Hebrew referencing, the feet euphemism.
Dude, you gotta give notice when you jump like that! If you really wanna know I'll tell you. If you're just having fun I'll go back to work.
That's a fair indication that my brain has wandered out of left field and into the parking lot. Meaning, better butt out!
My voice was buzzing in my ears. No, no. I started a thread with a wider 'perspective' scope [?] than I anticipated when I first tapped out the words on my telephone...it is always a joy to read [your] and [rabbit] other posts [maybe Krispee's x] with [+JLT, @J and @Hooly] knowledge on/of a subject.
Hubby says to warn you that trying to follow my brain is like trying to catch a wild hare in thick woods. You can try and you might succeed but you're going to need a lot of Anacin. I'm absolutely terrible about going off on [(sec^2)x]'s.
