British person writing a story set in America

Discussion in 'Word Mechanics' started by Elowrey, Jan 1, 2014.

  1. outsider

    outsider Contributor Contributor

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    Right, I got that.
    Thanks.
     
  2. Slacker

    Slacker New Member

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    In my opinion, yes. However, aligning with what Cogito has said already, that is because I'm American, and seeing an American use "centre" in a bit of dialogue would pull me out of whatever she's saying. Likewise, I feel if an author was writing from an American's point of view in American English, and then, in a conversation with a Brit used, "centre" instead of "center", I would become more engaged.

    It's an interesting concept, and although it would take a fair amount of time, research, and elbow grease, I could see it really paying off in verisimilitude. Pragmatically speaking, you should consider who your audience will be. These finer details may make my collegiate mouth water, but would be lost on a young or less educated audience.

    In the end, I would recommend that you use American spelling and isms in dialogue for American characters. Outside of dialogue, use what you're comfortable with. :)
     
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  3. outsider

    outsider Contributor Contributor

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    So in conclusion then, Americans prefer using U.S. English and Brits, U.K. English.
    Who would've guessed?
    :eek:
     
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  4. Slacker

    Slacker New Member

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    It seems likely that would be the case, but if you're positing that as a conclusion to my post then you clearly misread it.
     
  5. outsider

    outsider Contributor Contributor

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    In a word. . . Flippancy.
    Did the wee emoticon not give you some inclination it was intended to be mildly humorous?
     
  6. Slacker

    Slacker New Member

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    So in conclusion, people who receive derisive replies don't find it funny.
    Who would've guessed?
    :eek:
     
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  7. outsider

    outsider Contributor Contributor

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    It wasn't directed at you personally, more of an assessment on the general consensus as I see it but touché anyway.
     
  8. tep

    tep New Member

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    That is a really good lesson; that the brit dry doesn't easily translate. Something you could use in your story? That dry has so many cultural openings for story...
     
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  9. tep

    tep New Member

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    That is a really good lesson; that the brit dry doesn't easily translate. Something you could use in your story? That dry has so many cultural openings for story...
     
  10. tep

    tep New Member

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    That is a really good lesson; that the brit dry doesn't easily translate. Something you could use in your story? That dry has so many cultural openings for story...
     
  11. jannert

    jannert Retired Mod Supporter Contributor

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    As a Yank who has lived in Scotland for nearly 28 years, I can say there's more to this than you might think. There are different ways of saying things as well as spellings to watch out for. If I were you, I'd get yourself a good American beta reader to look over what you've written (once you've written it) with an eye for anomalies and spelling differences. That's probably the only way you will get this right. I'm still making mistakes here myself. And I'm now in the position of never knowing for sure WHICH side of the Pond I'm speaking as. I'm going to sound goofy no matter where I am.
     
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  12. outsider

    outsider Contributor Contributor

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    Hi Jannert,
    I'm curious, what's your thoughts on Scottish dialogue being spelled phonetically? The story is set in Glasgow and the rest of the text is in standard English (third person omniscient) narrative.
    I'm resolutely determined to stick with it as it is very important to me to accurately depict the setting and story I'm trying to tell. However, there seems to be some hostility to this approach (on other threads).
    It would be interesting to hear your take on this.
    Thank you in advance. ;)
     
  13. jannert

    jannert Retired Mod Supporter Contributor

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    Hmm. There is so much BAD representation of 'Scottish' dialect, both written and in things like films, I'm nervous about saying 'go for it.' I think you're already a step or two ahead, by recognising that there is no such thing as a 'Scottish' accent, if you're not looking for the 'received pronunciation' used by the BBC. People in Glasgow speak differently from people 12 miles away in Hamilton. They certainly speak differently from people who live in the Borders, Edinburgh, Perth, Dundee, Aberdeen, Inverness, the Western Isles, Shetland, Orkney, and all the rural areas of Scotland, both highland and lowland.

    I think if you're going to do this, you need to maybe tone it down a bit, only using certain phrases or words that will stick the accent without becoming too phonetic. Billy Connolly is from Glasgow, so he's not a bad place to start, if you're going to listen to what it sounds like. (Try to get his earlier stuff, while he was still dealing with Glasgow more than he is now. Pain-free research, I'd call it. He's hilarious.)

    It would be interesting to see a representation of what you've already written. It's hard to judge otherwise. But think ...wherever you come from, you will have an 'accent.' It doesn't make a lot of sense to phonetically reproduce every sound you make in dialogue, does it? Just try to get familiar with the kind of things a Glasgwegian might say, as well as the way they say them.

    Check out some Glasgow writers as well. Reading some of them might be a big help.
     
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  14. mammamaia

    mammamaia nit-picker-in-chief Contributor

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    if you don't mind my horning in, outsider, i've been a lover of the scottish 'burr' since i first heard it many decades ago, and i wouldnae fesh masel if it's written out sparely...

    but a little phonetically spelled dialect goes a long way... and too much will be more annoyance to readers than appreciated for accuracy...
     
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  15. Simpson17866

    Simpson17866 Contributor Contributor

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    My thoughts on that are the same as my thoughts on spelling American dialogue phonetically.
     
  16. outsider

    outsider Contributor Contributor

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    I'm sorry, I didn't explain myself as well as I might have.

    I am from Glasgow myself, from a working class background which, coincidentally enough, my characters are also. In that respect then, I feel I'm well placed to give an accurate representation of the Glasweigan demotic on paper.
    It is important for me to do this as these people, my people, are rarely depicted in literature. There are of course some exceptions, authors like James Kelman and Irvine Welsh have blazed a trail in this respect.
    Where I think I differ slightly in my writing is that it is predominantly only dialogue that I'm representing in this way, the rest of the text is in third person narrative.
    The two authors I mentioned, whilst not exclusively, predominantly in their works have used a first person, wholly phonetic, Scots style.
    I just thought it would be interesting to hear what an English speaking foreigner that stays in Scotland and is obviously well versed in its colloquilalisms thought of such an approach.
    Anyway, thank you for your comments and I'll be looking for beta readers when the time is right ;)
    40,000 words so far.
     
  17. outsider

    outsider Contributor Contributor

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    Being as I lost my powers of telepathy some time ago, your statement is less than helpful.
     
  18. Simpson17866

    Simpson17866 Contributor Contributor

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    Spelling one accent phonetically but not another accent shows that you think one accent to be more real than the other. If you don't spell your own accent phonetically, why would somebody else expect their accent to be treated differently?
     
  19. outsider

    outsider Contributor Contributor

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    On the contrary, it is precisely because I want an accurate representation of my voice that I feel I must convey it in this way.
    To represent the dialogue in Standard English simply will not ring true and in my opinion would render the story I'm trying to tell, farcical.
    Scots is more than simply an 'accent'.
     
  20. jannert

    jannert Retired Mod Supporter Contributor

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    Halp ma boab! Now that I know you're actually from Glasgow yourself, this is much easier! Yes, by all means, go for it! If you need examples, do look at what other Glasgow writers have done. Mind you, if they reproduce the Glasgow speech TOO accurately they may lose North American readers ...I'm saying 'may.' Not sure. I found myself having little or no bother picking up what Glasgwegians were saying (hey, I LOVED Glasgow from Day One!) but I've been around other Americans who struggled with it.

    Unlike some other parts of Scotland, broad Glasgow is more distinctively-accented English (and sometimes hilarious phrases and concepts) than dialect Scots. Get into some of the hinterlands of the rural northeast, or some places in the borders, and the words themselves are sometimes different. Fun, though. Always fun.
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2014
  21. ChickenFreak

    ChickenFreak Contributor Contributor

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    That's the part that I'm not clear on. That is--I'm not clear on how, when it's not simply an accent, phonetic spelling is relevant. I strongly suspect that it is relevant and that there are aspects of Scots that I just don't understand, that don't have analogous elements in the dialects that I know.

    I'm going to look at the English of the American South as an example. It's not my native dialect, but it is the dialect of some of my relatives and their neighbors.

    Let's say that Jane is offering to take a visiting cousin shopping. In what I'd call "newscaster English" (a specific standard of word choice, phrasing, and accent), the offer might sound like:

    "I might have time to drive you to the store later."

    If I throw in the phrasing of at least one part of the South, it could change to:

    "I might could drive you to the store later."

    A little more dialect, and I may be pushing it here:

    "I might could carry you to the store later."

    To me, this is done. I could add phonetics:

    "Ah maht cud carruh yuh tuh the sto' later."

    But I don't see that this adds anything at all, and I also see it as rather offensive. Who am I to say exactly what vowel sound should be used in "I" and "might"? Who am I to say that the "r" in store should be pronounced, when standard newscaster English also has plenty of silent consonants? If this person's accent is used as a standard, then we'd have to find a phonetic way to represent my accent.

    I'm fully prepared to accept that there's something that I Just Don't Get about Scots. The above is just to explain what I do think I get, in the hope that you'll help fill the gap, because I have been curious about this.
     
  22. Tesoro

    Tesoro Contributor Contributor

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    Maybe I'm being naive but I kind of thought that was why you sometimes see american books (for ex) with a new title or just a New and slightly modified version of it when it is published in GB. I've seen examples of that, but don't remember one right now. Like, books that seem to have one Brittish version and one American version. So I kind of thought they've adapted the language as well. Maybe I was wrong then :) I guess this is where it's probably easier, in one way, to be a foreigner writing a novel set in for ex US, because it will obviously be in my language and those little things won't be an issue. And if it would ever be translated into english there might as well be an american translation and a brittish one, Am I right?
     
  23. Cogito

    Cogito Former Mod, Retired Supporter Contributor

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    Any such dialect translation is very work-intensive, and would have to at least be cleared with the author. But most "foreign editions" are really just re-typeset versions of the same manuscript through. Illustrations and cover may differ somewhat, as will the exact page numbers, You can see an example of this in the UK vs US editions of Harry Potter. "Jobbing out" the physical publication spreads out the work and reduces bulk shipping costs.
     
  24. chicagoliz

    chicagoliz Contributor Contributor

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    I do believe this is quite common and is part of the reason amazon has a British site as well as an American one (and many others, as well). I bought a book about climate change that was used and accidentally got the British version. There were differences in spelling, etc, although they were minor. But there was definitely both an American version and a British version. I think this is very common in traditional publishing with the big presses. Maybe it's less so with smaller presses, and rare with self-publishing. But, if you reach the point where you're publishing editions for multiple countries, the publisher will have a process, and likely will be done by their editors (or their translators, in the case of an edition for non-English speaking countries.) It's not something you have to worry about at this point.
     
  25. Tesoro

    Tesoro Contributor Contributor

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    Fascinating! No, I'm not worried. I find it intriguing though. Which version does the canadians read? :rolleyes:
     

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