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  1. Aldarion

    Aldarion Active Member

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    Calendar check

    Discussion in 'Setting Development' started by Aldarion, Jan 28, 2020.

    Does this look fine? There is a lot of mathematics involved here, and my Latin is rusty as well, so I am a bit paranoid...

    .--------------------------------------.----------------------------------------.---------------------------------

    TIME

    Ordinary year is 365 days long, and leap year is 366 days long. Eight leap years in every millenium (all 00 years but 500. and 1000.) have a day removed from them, making them 365 days long.

    Year is divided into twelve months, grouped in 6 pairs. First month of a pair is 29 days long and second is 30 days long. Remaining 11 days are placed between the months. These are called intercalarii (intercalary days), and are considered holidays. Leap year has 12 intercalary days, one day added after 12th month (Intercalarius Extraordinaris). Months are counted numerically: Unimber, Duober, Treseber, Quatrilis, Quinqilis, Sexilis, September, October, November, December, Undecimber, Duodecimber. Quatriber, Quinqiber, Sexiber are sometimes used alternate names.

    Week has seven days. Each month has four weeks, but one or two days per month are left outside the week, and are also holidays. Days within the week are marked with letters: A, B, C, D, E, F, G, or simply called feria prima, feria secunda, feria tertia, feria quarta, feria quinta, feria sexta, feria septima. Extra day is called dies Solis, with dies Lunae also appearing in 30-day months. These used to be at the end of a month, but dies Solis was shifted to middle of the month on 615 AUC. Thus middle day of a month is holiday. Intercalary days outside the months are termed intercalarius primus, intercalarius secundus etc., and are placed in between the months.

    Day is divided into twelve horae (hours), beginning at sunrise and ending at sunset. Night is divided into four vigilae (watches). This division is mostly used only in the military. Astrological day is divided into 24 equal hours, beginning at midnight, and this is usually used for civilian purposes (time is kept by spring-driven clocks).

    Seasons may also be noted – spring, summer, autumn and winter. These correspond to phases, with elemental names – earth for spring, fire for summer, air for autumn and water for winter.

    Years are numbered either AUC (Ab Urbe Condita – since founding of the city) or else AOM (Annus Origine Mundi). Currently, year is 2215 AUC or 7724 AOM. Years earlier than founding are listed as PUC (Prior in Urbe Condita). Other than that, there are several other time-keeping systems.

    Years are also counted by the ruler who was crowned in that year. Particular year may be the fifth year of the reign of Emperor [Insert Name].

    Fourth calendar is indictionary. This system utilizes the fiscal adjustment year of the baseline. Tax assessment is carried out every 15 years. Year 2215 AUC is also the 10th year of 148th indiction cycle.

    NOTE: starting year for the story is equivalent to 1461. in history. Rome was founded 753 BC

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1461

    NOTE2: YEAR CALCULATION

    Astronomical (tropical) year is 365 days, 5 hours, 48 minutes, 45 seconds long. Calendar year is 365 days long. This makes astronomical year 31 556 925 seconds long, and calendar year 31 536 000 seconds long.

    Every 4 years, a day is added (24 hours, 86 400 seconds exactly). As a result, four astronomical years have 126 227 700 seconds, and four calendar years 126 230 400 seconds.

    Astronomical century has 3 155 692 500 seconds, while 25 calendar quartets would have 3 155 760 000 seconds. Astronomical millenium has 31 556 925 000 seconds, while calendar millenium would have 31 557 600 000 seconds. Thus one day is removed from a year every 125 years (eight years per millenium), leaving calendar millenium at 31 556 908 800 seconds, 16 200 seconds shorter than astronomical millenium. This requires an additional day every 5 millenia, meaning that 5-millenia period is 157 784 625 000 seconds in nature and 157 784 630 400 seconds in calendar, or 5 400 seconds more.

    Not counting an additional day every 5 millenia, which is too long of a period to be accounted for, Vetronian calendar millenium would be 16 200 seconds or 0,0000513359% shorter than astronomical millenium. A year would thus be 16,2 seconds shorter than astronomical year on average, for 16 200 seconds or 0,1875 days every 1 000 years. This lack of 4 hours, 30 minutes and 0 seconds may make it more accurate than Numenorean calendar (4 hours, 46 minutes, 40 seconds every 1 000 years) or Gregorian calendar (error of 1 day per 3 030 years, or 7 hours, 55 minutes, 15 seconds every 1 000 years). Unless I screwed up somewhere.
     
  2. Naomasa298

    Naomasa298 HP: 10/190 Status: Confused Contributor

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    Sorry, is this a system you are proposing for your fiction?
     
  3. TheOtherPromise

    TheOtherPromise Senior Member

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    Seems fine to me, though I would say that you're probably overthinking it somewhat. I can't foresee a reason why the reader needs to know all the background calculations, so that just seems like unnecessary details. You've already put all that effort into it for this story, so there's no need to worry about it here. But I'd personally recommend that for any potential other world you create, you don't stress about those kinds of details. Unless it affects your story in some way it's just not worth the time it took. That's my stance anyway.
     
  4. Naomasa298

    Naomasa298 HP: 10/190 Status: Confused Contributor

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    Every other millennium has 3 leap years. The years 3200, 3600 and 4000 will all be leap years, as will 5200, 5600 and 6000.
     
  5. Aldarion

    Aldarion Active Member

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    Yes.

    I figured I will likely have to use calendar to keep track of where things are in the story, so if I include date references in it, I wanted it to be in something which makes sense for the story. Now, I may use real-world calendar for the purpose so that it is easier, but I doubt it.
     
  6. TheOtherPromise

    TheOtherPromise Senior Member

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    I understand that, I'm currently working on my own fictional calendar for that same reason.

    What I meant is that whole Year Calculation section won't matter, unless you are writing the hardest of Sci-fi. The leap year math is just complications that you can probably just hand-wave away. At least that's what I'm doing in my story. I don't think I've ever read a story where such fine detail actually came up. But if it helps you plan, then do what works for you.
     
  7. Aldarion

    Aldarion Active Member

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    Well, that is my hairsplitting tendency showing through as well. Unless I have something worked out in detail, I always have that nagging feeling that something is lacking or I have made a mistake somewhere, which I really, really hate.
     
  8. Naomasa298

    Naomasa298 HP: 10/190 Status: Confused Contributor

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    Your reader is not going to care how many seconds there are in an astronomical year. If you spend time on this kind of detail, you're going to risk overloading yourself with useless information. That's like asking how many cobbles there are in a road between two fantasy cities.
     
  9. Aldarion

    Aldarion Active Member

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    No, he won't. But I needed to know that detail to make calculations necessary for the calendar itself.
     
  10. Naomasa298

    Naomasa298 HP: 10/190 Status: Confused Contributor

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    Unless you're calculating things to the second, surely you only need the days/months/years.
     
  11. Aldarion

    Aldarion Active Member

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    Seconds accumulate over millenia, though. 30 seconds each day comes out to 126,82 days over a thousand years.
     
  12. Naomasa298

    Naomasa298 HP: 10/190 Status: Confused Contributor

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    If this is a fantasy world, simply eliminate them from your calendar.
     
  13. Aldarion

    Aldarion Active Member

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    Technically, I based map on Earth. So it is kinda like Middle-Earth: either far past or far future (I have not decided) of our world. Though it doesn't really come up.
     
  14. TheOtherPromise

    TheOtherPromise Senior Member

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    After refreshing myself on latin, I will say that I don't think feria is the word you're looking for. It's meaning is more akin to a holiday rather than day of the week. You might want to just stick with dies.

    Though that does introduce a problem of its own that I can see. Your terms for days of the week and months are very cold and mathematical. They work well as placeholders, but it might be nice if you name them something that can provide little bits of world-building.

    For instance our own days of the week were named for the planets/gods in ancient times. We've got, from latin: Dies Solis, sun; Dies Lunae, moon; Dies Martis, mars; Dies Mercurii, mercury; Dies Iovis, Jupiter; Dies Veneris, Venus; and Dies Saturni, Saturn. For the english varient we keep Sunday, Monday, and Saturday, but draw from Germanic/Norse mythology for the rest: Tuesday, Tyr; Wednesday, Odin; Thursday, Thor; Friday, Frigg (it comes from old english spellings of them so it's not entirely apparent, and I'm using wikipedia as a source so you can check out there to see more). Point being the names meant something to the people who named them. Months are the same way.

    That's how I approached the naming scheme in my own story. Which in case you're interested (for inspiration/comparison sake) are as follows, for months: Minermen, Venamen, Merkramen, Dinamen, Avolmen, Zeramen, Vulkamen, Marmen, Yuvimen, Vezamen, Yunamen, and Nevtamen. And for days: Feenday, Draday, Rinday, Fonday, Kraday, and Meerday. Will I ever explicitly state where the names came from, no. Will it matter if the reader figures out what they are named after, no. But it does (at least to me) provide the sense of depth and culture to the names. And that is what is important.

    Just words for thought. Take them or leave them. Just trying to provide opinions to help you make the most engaging world you can.
     
  15. Aldarion

    Aldarion Active Member

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    Yes, that is a problem. I am thinking about replacing those names, but I will need to find good proto-Italic dictionary first, and then create names for gods and protectors.

    EDIT: I went with Penates for days instead:
    "Days within the week are marked with letters: A, B, C, D, E, F, G, or by names dies imperialis, dies compitalicus, dies domesticus, dies familiaris, dies militaris, dies permarinus, dies praestitus."

    Not sure whether to create individual archangels (protectors of nature, similar in nature to Roman/Celtic nature spirits) and use them for names of months, or to leave months numerical. Maybe I'll change names of days as well, if there are enough spirits, but probably not unless I get rid of Penates or replace their names.
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2020
  16. Some Guy

    Some Guy Manguage Langler Supporter Contributor

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    By all means, create fantastical names and mythology. Just consider time itself to be less mathematically relevant. What I mean is that your reference point makes the difference in accuracy for calculation.
    If sci-fi, base your reference of a cosmic event with a massive and consistent period (pulsars, polar sun cycles, the movement of the Sun relative to the galactic plane), possibly giving you an excuse to avoid overcalculating. Then you may be able to hint at a formulaic countdown system. Lunar, solar, and Earth-based celestial cycles are decaying as the Moon moves away from earth and slows our spin. Longer and longer days. Pretty troublesome for time travel (at least getting back).
    For fantasy, consider the baktuns or some astrological alignment, or even the 22-year polar sun shift). Observe rather than measure.
    Have fun.
     
  17. Naomasa298

    Naomasa298 HP: 10/190 Status: Confused Contributor

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    And people in pre-modern times got their calculations wrong. That's why the Julian calendar had to be corrected to become the Gregorian calendar.

    The Earth's rotation slows by 18 milliseconds per millennium. Will you take that into account too?
     
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  18. Aldarion

    Aldarion Active Member

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    Julian and Gregorian calendars both are extremely accurate, relative to technology at the time. As to slowdown, no, I do not think it would be observable without modern instruments.

    Anyway, I have changed names of the days:
     
  19. Some Guy

    Some Guy Manguage Langler Supporter Contributor

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    Not in terms of milliseconds or millennia. :p
    (Seeker might - Shhh...)
     
  20. DPena

    DPena Member

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    Hmm.. I barely gave my seasons names in my story...
     

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