This is missing the point. I never claimed that colons could never be used in dialogue, but rather that it does not fit with the convention of punctuation and grammar inside dialogue. There is nothing about colons or any other punctuation mark that makes it intrinsically unfit to be used in dialogue, but rather common usage. You're welcome to try to change the convention, but while certain usage is expected, going against it has a tendency to trip up readers. You can disagree with me, but at least do so on the points that I am making, that is, whether this is or should be the convention, and not on the overall use of grammar and punctuation in dialogue. Reductio ad absurdum isn't a particularly good way of making your point.
From what I gather the whole point he is trying to make is not whether or not they can be used in dialogue. But rather should they be used in dialogue. Since 99% of the time they are not used, the other 1% of the time makes readers notice it (at least I for one notice it every time because it is a rare occurrence). The point I think he is trying to make is that when someone is taken out of the story because the see a colon or semicolon isn't grandest choice because you can get the same effect with the normal commas and periods. And without someone stopping and wondering, "oh I see a colon, that's weird." You have to remember not everyone out there is a writer. So what would be normal for you and I is not normal for them. For me, I agree. Like I said earlier, I think of it as akin to dialogue tags. You don't want the reader to notice every tag, it takes them out of the story. So why would you want a colon or semicolon to do it?
I'm not from Europe. I'm from the U.S. We are taught one way. If you're going to list something, it is preceded with a colon. Example- She turned to me and said, "I have need of three things: Milk, bread and eggs." Why? Because Milk, bread and eggs is not a coherent sentence. To be tripped up over a colon is to be obsessive compulsive. I said it before and I'll say it again. Yes, you can use a colon in written dialogue. It's really not that difficult.
She turned to me and said, "I need milk, bread and eggs." That reads and looks way better in my opinion.
I'm pretty sure you can use colons in dialogue (I sometimes do), but like sentence fragments and starting a sentence with "and", it's very hard to pull off. Here's some guides. http://www.writingforward.com/grammar/punctuation-marks/punctuation-marks-the-colon http://www.dailywritingtips.com/proper-use-of-the-colon/
@Jhunter. I am citing a quote. Again, she said, "I have need of three things: Milk, bread and eggs." It is grammatically correct. Yes, you can use a colon in written dialogue.
He's arguing that it doesn't read well, which is ridiculous. I'd be more shaken seeing an incorrectly placed comma than a semi-colon, or colon anyday. Perhaps you need to research semi-colons some more, find out where they are appropriate so they don't "stumble" you so much when you come across them?
But why does it look way better? Is it a bias against colons? I'm honestly trying to understand why so many of you are trying so hard to argue against allowing colons in dialogue. To me, they look just fine. (I grew up and was educated in Canada, if that helps you understand where I'm coming from.) Just saying that colons might trip a reader up and take them out of the story is not a sufficient reason. For one thing, unusual things in a piece of writing might pull the reader in more, and make them more interested. I know that's happened to me many times. If a character is written speaking in an odd accent, or an odd sentence structure, for instance, it's interesting. Look at how Yoda speaks in the Star Wars movies - sure, it's unconventional, but does it take you out of the story? Or does it make you more intrigued with the character and the story? Another point is that, while it might be unusual the first time you see it, would it take you out of the story the second time? Or the third? Probably not. You'll have seen it before, and will know that it's okay - it doesn't bite. And what reader would put a book aside because there are colons in the dialogue? "Yeah, Joe, I was reading that book, but I saw a colon in the dialogue, so I threw it into the fireplace and wrote a strongly worded letter to the publisher saying that I do NOT want to see colons in the dialogue of books I pay for, and if they do not deal with this serious problem immediately, I will henceforth restrict my reading to children's books!" Okay, I apologize (a bit) for that last paragraph. But the serious point I want to make is that it is a bit absurd to take issue with correctly-used punctuation wherever it may appear in a novel. No offense intended; I was just enjoying the argument.
I never once said it was incorrect or that you cant use it in dialogue. All I said was what sounded and looked better to me.
I am not arguing anything. All I said was my opinion on the matter and how I would personally go about writing it. I know full well they can be used in dialogue and how they can and cant be used. Maybe you should do some research on what an opinion is. So they don't "stumble" you so much when you come across them.
I find that while I wouldn't make a rule that one should never use a colon in dialogue, I can't think of an occasion when I would use one. When I hear someone speaking in my head, speech just doesn't support the... tension? I'm going to go with that, yes - it doesn't support the tension between the clauses before and after the colon that would make the colon justified for me. So if I hear someone saying: "I need three things: Milk, eggs, and butter." it instead sounds like: "I need three things. Milk, eggs and butter." No matter how emphatically I make the speaker-in-my-head pull those two together, I just can't make them say it so that I can hear the colon. Of course, this means that my speaker is speaking ungrammatically, but dialogue doesn't require perfect grammar. But maybe that's just my mental ear.
That is like me asking you why you like a certain color more than another. It is just personal preference. There is no hidden reason, haha. And we all know by now that they are allowed in dialogue. It is just personal preference. Having different opinions is what makes us individuals. I don't think comparing the way Yoda speaks and the way a colon looks in dialogue is exactly apples to apples, haha. But again, this is all personal preference, so what you may think is not a sufficient reason may well be good enough for someone else. It is after all the individuals work. I completely agree with that. And I am sure when they are widely used nobody will blink an eye at seeing one in dialogue. Hahahaha, that made me spit coffee all over my desk. Good stuff. But, I do not think anybody here is trying to advocate that a reader or even an editor would act that way. Haha, no need to apologize that was the best thing I have read all day.
Do I have to define "argument" for you again? Your Arguement is that other punctuation reads better than colons in dialogue. It's really frustrating that you define words by one of their five possible meanings.
But it's not what she said. If she says things like "I need three things: milk, bread and eggs" it shows you something about the character. If she doesn't say things like that but does on this occasion then it shows you something about the state of the character.
I am not arguing what is right or wrong. I simply stating what I would do and what I prefer. You know, what I personally THINK. Giving ones opinion on something doesn't necessitate an argument. I am not trying to convince him or you of anything. I am sorry not understanding what is going on is frustrating for you.
How are either of the examples different in context? Both of them mean the same thing, one just has less words and no colon. And how does either one show anything more or less about the character? I am genuinely confused on what you are trying to say.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/argument A word can have more than one meaning... Arguement 3.a process of reasoning; series of reasons: "I couldn't follow his argument."
I think it is safe to say we all know a word can have more than one meaning. With that said, don't you think it is a little presumptuous of you to know how I meant what I said more than I? I have already told you I was just stating what I would do, also known as my statement on the matter. Not argument. I never once said, "I am arguing this point." Because there is nothing to argue. An opinion is an opinion. Neither one can be wrong. That is what makes them an opinion.
You are agruing your opinon, as in applying reason to your opinion, I'm not saying that you're trying to prove/disprove anything I'm claiming that you're simply explaining why you think the way you think.
Not to step on digitig's point, but it's one thing to say "So long as you're going to the store, Larry, I need milk, bread, and eggs." But it's another thing to say, if Larry has a history of bringing home beer and porno DVDs, "I need three things, Larry: milk, bread, and eggs." It's more emphatic. It indicates annoyance with Larry and the way he usually does things. There's a different emotion in this way of saying pretty much the same thing. The colon provides emphasis, and, in this context, adds to the emotion of the speaker. Sure, one has less words and no colon (at least, in the original example), but there's a different emotional quality to the two versions of the statement.
Think of it this way, let's say a stereotypical villager and king want the person in front of them killed by their comrades: Would they order their comrades around using the same words? Would a king say "Killer the fooker"? Would a classic villager say "extinguish that ruffian's flame, mine fine compadre's"? Careful wording helps reflect character mannerisims, intent and bearing, thus helps define the characters personality.
I am at a loss for words. If you knew what I was doing from the start than why did you even say anything in the first place? Please don't tell me you tried to start an argument just because you are sour over the Star Wars debate. That would be ridiculous.
Originally Posted by RusticOnion He's arguing that it doesn't read well, which is ridiculous. I'd be more shaken seeing an incorrectly placed comma than a semi-colon, or colon anyday. Perhaps you need to research semi-colons some more, find out where they are appropriate so they don't "stumble" you so much when you come across them? Originally Posted by Jhunter "I am not arguing anything. All I said was my opinion on the matter and how I would personally go about writing it. I know full well they can be used in dialogue and how they can and cant be used. Maybe you should do some research on what an opinion is. So they don't "stumble" you so much when you come across them. " Okay, let me explain to you what happend here; ministrel didn't understand what you were trying to say, so I explained it to him then gave my opinion on your opinion. You then argued my intended use of the word "Argue" you thought I ment you were debating (the first most common use of the word), when I was trying to say you were rationalising your opinion (the 3rd meaning of "argue") I then spent the next few posts trying to explain my use of the word argue to you. It wasn't easy. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SnO9Jyz82Ps
Ah, I get what you both are saying now, I wasn't putting the correct emphasis in my head when I was reading the two examples. I just read them quickly. There is another reason why colons in dialogue screw me up. But, I would still argue (yes, this time I am arguing RusticOnion ) that the same could be said this way: (and at least in my mind look and read better) "So long as you are going to the store Larry, I need milk, bread and eggs," she said, poking the index finger of her right hand into his chest with each word. She was definitely feed up with his shopping habits and would have none of it this time. But to each their own and more power to you however you decide to write. It is your book after all.
Okay, JHunter, good enough. All hatchets stay buried. You get my point, I get your point, and if we disagree, we disagree. But that's fine!
