Tags:
  1. J.D. Ray

    J.D. Ray Member Supporter Contributor

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2018
    Messages:
    657
    Likes Received:
    668
    Location:
    Oak Harbor, Washington, USA

    Grammar Tense question

    Discussion in 'Word Mechanics' started by J.D. Ray, Mar 8, 2020.

    Given the following:
    The office, which was apparently the captain’s quarters given the rumpled bed built into one wall, was nicely appointed without being lavish; clearly a working man’s space, though a man of some success. A chart was pinned to the wall that separated the cabin from the rest of the ship. It showed the Adriatic Sea in detail, including hazards, major port cities, and islands. Lines, which must be navigation aids, crisscrossed the map at strange and seemingly arbitrary angles.​

    Should the last sentence read "Lines, which must be navigation aids..." or "Lines, which must have been navigation aids..."?
     
  2. Homer Potvin

    Homer Potvin A tombstone hand and a graveyard mind Staff Supporter Contributor

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2017
    Messages:
    12,141
    Likes Received:
    19,767
    Location:
    Rhode Island
    This one sounds better in my head, though I suppose either could be technically correct.
     
  3. J.D. Ray

    J.D. Ray Member Supporter Contributor

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2018
    Messages:
    657
    Likes Received:
    668
    Location:
    Oak Harbor, Washington, USA
    I fixed it:
    "Lines, presumably navigation aids..."​
    :D
     
    Lifeline and Xoic like this.
  4. Xoic

    Xoic Prognosticator of Arcana Ridiculosum Contributor Blogerator

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2019
    Messages:
    12,460
    Likes Received:
    13,503
    Location:
    Way, way out there
    I was going to suggest 'undoubtedly' or 'probably', but presumably works even better.
     
    J.D. Ray likes this.
  5. Bowie_the_Birb

    Bowie_the_Birb Member

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2019
    Messages:
    55
    Likes Received:
    41
    I like presumably, but one of my favorite words is "likely" so
    "Lines, likely navigation aids..."
    Same effect, fewer syllables.
     
    J.D. Ray likes this.
  6. Lifeline

    Lifeline South. Supporter Contributor

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2015
    Messages:
    4,282
    Likes Received:
    5,805
    Location:
    On the Road.
    Be careful of your chosen narrative voice, or you could fix the tense error but create a narrative voice error :D
     
    J.D. Ray likes this.
  7. More

    More Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2019
    Messages:
    234
    Likes Received:
    164
    A completely different point . Ships charts are always on tables , not walls.
     
    KiraAnn likes this.
  8. Seven Crowns

    Seven Crowns Moderator Staff Supporter Contributor Contest Winner 2022

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2017
    Messages:
    1,998
    Likes Received:
    3,691
    If you look at just that one line, it works perfectly. So you're not really fighting the grammar. Okay, in a way you are, but it's not about being grammatical. It has more to do with letting grammar create a shifting POV and whether or not you want/need that. It's still the narrator speaking, but he's shifting in time.

    You can have events happen in the past but expressed in the present:

    Yesterday, I was at the library, when this bum staggers up to me and recites a sonnet. He's quite good.​

    I know this gets marked wrong on an exam, but it happens in fiction anyway. It's sort of a conversational, historical present tense. It feels like some buddy of yours is telling you a story while having a beer. It's a nice effect. That's kind of what you're doing, just not so pronounced. From the narrator's point of view, the lines are being thought of in the present, even though they reside in the past. The problem is, do you mean to do that? If it just happens once, then you probably don't.

    It's possible to adjust a different section and fix things:

    The office, which is apparently the captain’s quarters given the rumpled bed built into one wall, was nicely appointed without being lavish; clearly a working man’s space, though a man of some success. A chart was pinned to the wall that separated the cabin from the rest of the ship. It showed the Adriatic Sea in detail, including hazards, major port cities, and islands. Lines, which must be navigation aids, crisscrossed the map at strange and seemingly arbitrary angles.
    Now those two "which" phrases align (okay, non-essential relative clauses, whatever . . .). That's the main thing I would do. Match those two in tense. By pushing them to the present, it makes the description seem more conversational, as if the narrator is casually musing over details. Leaving them in the past is more proper, and "safe," I suppose. I mean, this paragraph shouldn't suddenly jump out as conversational in tone if none of its neighbors do the same.

    Then you should ask yourself if you really want that matching structure so close together: [noun], [which . . .], [verb phrase]

    Lines crisscrossed the map at strange and seemingly arbitrary angles. Navigation aids, presumably.
    Something like that ties up the structure. It dodges issues of grammar, though at the end the narrator is making a value judgment and that pulls the idea to the present even though there's no verb there (and hence, no tense). That seems nice to me though because it happens at the end rather than in the middle.
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2020
    J.D. Ray likes this.
  9. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Admin Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2016
    Messages:
    22,567
    Likes Received:
    25,882
    Location:
    East devon/somerset border
    and they wouldn't be in the captains quarters since officers need to consult them while he is off watch - in general the chart space is just behind the bridge
     
  10. J.D. Ray

    J.D. Ray Member Supporter Contributor

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2018
    Messages:
    657
    Likes Received:
    668
    Location:
    Oak Harbor, Washington, USA
    There are charts on tables. This is more of an art piece.
     
  11. J.D. Ray

    J.D. Ray Member Supporter Contributor

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2018
    Messages:
    657
    Likes Received:
    668
    Location:
    Oak Harbor, Washington, USA
    The ship is a carrack; the year is 1575. The "bridge" is a spot to stand behind the wheel in the center of the deck.
     
  12. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Admin Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2016
    Messages:
    22,567
    Likes Received:
    25,882
    Location:
    East devon/somerset border
    in which case the charts would be in the chart room, where the navigator works - they still wouldn't be on the wall of the captains quarters
     
  13. Fervidor

    Fervidor Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2020
    Messages:
    448
    Likes Received:
    441
    Location:
    Sweden
    I would say yes. You really shouldn't mix tenses at all unless you have a very specific reason for doing so, and I don't see one here. Also, the rest of that sentence is in past tense.
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice