CISPA passed the House. Devastated

Discussion in 'The Lounge' started by SIDunbar, Apr 21, 2013.

  1. thirdwind

    thirdwind Member Contest Administrator Reviewer Contributor

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    I still consider this to be public info. Your friends can always share your posts with other people, so it's not completely private.
     
  2. SIDunbar

    SIDunbar New Member

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    The fact that your information is being passed third party to the government is what makes it unlawful. That's exactly the thing the 4th Amendment stood to protect.

    And this isn't so much about FB as it is Google, which owns EVERYTHING and holds all the information.
     
  3. SIDunbar

    SIDunbar New Member

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    "Of course it passed the House, The House wants it in and the Senate doesn't. Why else do you think the Senate vetoed it last year? We have to fight i agree, but you guys act like it's already passed into law. This is just like Gun control with multiple attempts and the same results. As long as we fight nothing will change that."




    Woah, woah woah. This isn't some call to action. It's a DISCUSSION. I wrote a post about a novel I wrote (in memory of A.S. and before CISPA passed the House). This is just open dialogue about if it is wrong, why it is wrong etc.

    We've already said the act would likely vetoed. I'm more worried about educating people, and that 248 ayes were publicly announced for such a crooked, underhanded bill. I'm more worried this act even exists in the first place.
     
  4. JJ_Maxx

    JJ_Maxx Banned

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    This is bordering on fear-mongering. Even a rudimentary knowledge of cookies and logs and IP protocol will show you that the information Google collects is not as specific as you make it out to be, and is also the same information your own Internet provider logs.

    We like the fact that our search engines remember we want our searches in English, or we like 50 results at a time.

    I mean think about it, do you really think Google knows the identity of the user sitting at the keyboard? Could that ever be proven? Nah.

    I agree this bill seems like bad news, but there's no need to spread misinformation.
     
  5. thirdwind

    thirdwind Member Contest Administrator Reviewer Contributor

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    But you can always choose not to do business with the company that's passing on the information. You can always take your business elsewhere. So I don't consider it to be a violation of the 4th Amendment.

    On the other hand, if all companies decide that they want to pass your information along, there's not much you can do. Internet access isn't a right as far as the government is considered. So in this case, you either give up your privacy or your internet access. Of course, this is an extreme case.
     
  6. slamdunk

    slamdunk New Member

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    I don't know for sure but it sounds like US people and US companies can benefit greatly from this. It can allow the intelligence to pinpoint infected networks/computers used by foreign hackers and possible shut that down, preventing information leakage that could hurt companies/national interest (hacking is a real threat these days with so much information going digital).

    It can probably help pinpoint agents acting in us soil faster if they get information from the manufacturing companies (timing can be crucial) etc. Personally I don't think "they" have much interest in "normal people", but I can see why that can be a concern.
     
  7. erebh

    erebh Banned Contributor

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    This applies currently to Europpeans -
    Google is at present "co-ercing" everyone who uses their service to also use google plus. Anyone who wants to watch a youtube video has to log in or create an account. If you have an account under an alias, they are making you change to your full name, as Facebook does. This is being rolled out now as beta testing in Europe - it's a pain in the ass because I have to keep clicking, not right now, and it reminds me everytime I open youtube or my gmail. Before long it will be mandatory or don't use their service. Along with your IP address, your google account, your Gmail, your youtube account, they will know exactly who you are, what you like, what porn you're into, what you put on your cornflakes. Send an email about skiing in France, expect a million emails / ad placements about skiing in France. What else are they doing with this data? They've already been busted all around Europe for taking people's WiFi details, log-ins etc in their little cars when they're meant to be mapping streets for google earth. Look what they've done with Google books - they were chased from France - the curator of the libraire de Paris has written a book on how he literally grabbed two google guys and frogmarched them out of his office onto the street.

    Google should read their own mantra - Do No Evil
     
  8. Kaga

    Kaga New Member

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    They may not necessarily know your identity, but they already adapt results to your prior search history, which could possibly omit interesting topics or results that they somehow deem "unfit". I read about someone who got some friends, I think it was five of them, to type in the same phrase on google and take a screenshot of what they got, and they got five very different results. I also started getting norwegian ads on american sites because of tracking cookies, so the scenario SIDunbar is painting here might not be all that far fetched.

    Some may argue that this is good, since it gives you what they think you may like, but it also means you may miss many potentially interesting results because someone else is basically making decisions for you without your knowledge or approval. I don't know about you, but I kind of dislike having some invisible "genie" deciding what it believe I want before sending the info I requested over to me. You can of course turn this off, but as far as I know it's on by default and many people may not know about this.
     
  9. SIDunbar

    SIDunbar New Member

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    JJMax,
    Do you not hear people being arrested and investigated daily? Did you not hear about the multiple people arrested based on Reddit comments ALONE?
    They have your words, your address and your name. What more about you do they need to know? Also, I spoke about what you mentioned about "how can they prove it??" in the video. Thanks, though.

    Internet access is something you pay for, something that is almost necessary just to get by (education, money transfers, information, communication). When Google owns half the information being moved via internet, how can you "take your business elsewhere"? When your school or job resume REQUIRES you put down a FB account, how do you "take your business elsewhere"?
     
  10. SIDunbar

    SIDunbar New Member

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    And again, this isn't so much about WHAT THEY KNOW as about WHAT THEY DO WITH IT. It's data collection for greedy advertisers. It happens already. Google scans your email and blasts you with ads. You really think a 13yr old signing up for their first email for high school stuff is going to read a three page, 8 font license and privacy terms and agreement? Neither do they. :)

    It's the same abuse that happened with credit card companies and big cell providers. Confuse em and use em.
     
  11. SIDunbar

    SIDunbar New Member

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    I work for Metasploit. This is NOT about hacking. There are airtight programs for that. One we happen to sell :)
     
  12. SIDunbar

    SIDunbar New Member

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    Umm, this is not just the US we're talking about. Anyone with a Facebook account could now have their data shipped directly to the U.S. government. That's why there's such strong opposition.
     
  13. JJ_Maxx

    JJ_Maxx Banned

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    Show me an example of someone getting arrested by a government for performing a search...
     
  14. E. C. Scrubb

    E. C. Scrubb Active Member

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    If you've ever done research on a book that includes an explosion or bomb or anything such as that, and you wanted to know specifics, there's a good chance you're on an FBI watch list. Buddy of mine did a Freedom of Information Act request on himself.

    Sure enough, he was already being watched.
     
  15. SIDunbar

    SIDunbar New Member

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    Reddtor Naratto was recently arrested and investigated for a confession bear. A MEME.

    This isn't about searches, guy. I don't know why you're harping on this 'search engine' stuff. They go through email, they use your own thoughts and comments for ADVERTISING (and sometimes for busting crime), and it's a violation of your rights and privacy.
     
    1 person likes this.
  16. JJ_Maxx

    JJ_Maxx Banned

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    Well over the past week I have done Google research on:

    How to make a pipe bomb
    How to make a pressure cooker bomb
    How to make a cell phone detonator
    Al Qaeda twitter feeds
    Al Qaeda chat rooms
    Successful bombings

    As well as a thousand others... So far no black helicopters but I'll let you know.
     
  17. JJ_Maxx

    JJ_Maxx Banned

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    I said an example, not some stupid anime-nicknamed 13-year old spouting off.
     
  18. thirdwind

    thirdwind Member Contest Administrator Reviewer Contributor

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    I agree with you, and this is part of the reason why I'm against CISPA. But I wouldn't say that it's a violation of the 4th amendment, which involves unlawful searches and seizures by the government.

    A lot of companies already collect anonymous statistics, so that aspect of data collection isn't new. What's new is that your name will now be attached to those statistics and data, so it will no longer be anonymous. That's another reason why I'm against the bill.
     
  19. SIDunbar

    SIDunbar New Member

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    Your wasting time. I'm not trying to argue with you. If you want take facts, please leave.

    He wasn't 13. But you know EXACTLY WHO YOU SOUND LIKE?

    Rep. Mike Rogers, who said that CISPA opponents are just "14 year-old tweeter in the basement".
     
  20. SIDunbar

    SIDunbar New Member

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    THIS ISN'T ABOUT SEARCH ENGINES. As I've mentioned. Please read before you react.

    But we shouldn't argue. We're both on the same side. Our own ;)
     
  21. JJ_Maxx

    JJ_Maxx Banned

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    Nope.

    Nope.

    No they don't actually.

    Source?

    I've had a lot of jobs, and not one of them has 'required' me to have a FB account. Source?

    This is all just scare tactics, and they're unnecessary.
     
  22. SIDunbar

    SIDunbar New Member

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    You need to post sources as well, sir, if you'd like to disagree. I've given examples, you ignored them.

    If you want so many answers, would you save us all some time and look them up yourself? Because it's going take forever to educate you. Here's a tidbit.

    Technically, fixed I.P. addresses — those that are permanently assigned to a given computer — are also not personal information, because a Web site doesn’t know who is using that computer. But once the site, or a partner, convinces a user at that site to reveal his or her identity — to register for a service, make a purchase, or even enter a sweepstakes — that information can be associated with everything else the users of that computer do.

    Here is a link that better explains exactly what they CAN see. From a source outside of myself.
    http://www.paralegal.net/cispa/
     
  23. SIDunbar

    SIDunbar New Member

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    Many jobs in IT require Facebook accounts just to apply. I would know that, as I am in internet securities.

    Here's a blog post about one instance:

    http://blog.jpdesigntheory.com/applying-for-jobs-may-require-your-facebook-password

    http://redtape.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/03/06/10585353-govt-agencies-colleges-demand-applicants-facebook-passwords

    Just because you haven't heard of something doesn't mean it does not exist.
     
  24. SIDunbar

    SIDunbar New Member

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    But seriously, isn't this tiring for you? What's your endgame? Besides disproving a 22 yr old who lost her friend to a battle she's trying to defend. I was just posting about how SAD i was about the act. Don't turn this into some debate. It's silly.
     
  25. JJ_Maxx

    JJ_Maxx Banned

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    I'm afraid that's not how it works.

    You made a claim in the first place, and now you need to prove that what you are claiming is true. The burden is not on me to prove that you are wrong in your assertions.

    If you lack the knowledge or wherewithal to provide me with an example of your claims, then they remain nothing but ignorant dribble.

    You will be happy to note, that I did find the details behind the supposed 'meme' arrest you mentioned and you left out the part where someone confessed to murder on a public forum. In fact, it was other users upon digging deeper into his story, realized that this individual may be telling the truth and alerted the FBI. He was not, however, arrested. You can't confess to killing someone on a public forum and be surprised if you get attention, especially if your confession is seen by millions of people.
     

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