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  1. PoisonSamurai

    PoisonSamurai New Member

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    Co-writers/ advice

    Discussion in 'Plot Development' started by PoisonSamurai, Sep 13, 2017.

    I'm currently squatting on two plots that I believe are the basis for decently original and potentially good fantasy stories. I'm the type of person who comes up with in-depth plots and detailed worlds for them to take place in, in addition to decent characters, but is unable to actually write the whole novel because of the inability to write the mundane parts in between the plot points that carry the story along, but aren't important plot points.

    Are there (ideally professional) writers out there who exclusively work with people, helping them write their stories? For instance, I would show them the plot and work with them on fleshing it out and writing the actual story, and if it were to be published, we would both share the credit.
    If there are no resources such as that, is there any advice you would give someone who has these difficulties?
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2017
  2. surrealscenes

    surrealscenes Contributing Member

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    There are most likely people out there that offer these services (ghostwriters?). Most people you will find would probably rather lead you to writing it yourself, rather than take over.
    The real problem comes in when the other person spends time writing and you don't like what they wrote.
     
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  3. PoisonSamurai

    PoisonSamurai New Member

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    That's a fair point, while I'm not overly picky, if we weren't working together closely, I could see the possibility of dissatisfaction occurring. Honestly I'd probably be so thrilled that it was actually being brought to fruition that I probably wouldn't really be too picky. :superlaugh:
    Thanks for your thoughts!
     
  4. Homer Potvin

    Homer Potvin Contributing Member

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    Yep, ghostwriters like @surrealscenes said. Have your checkbook ready... they cost thousands. If you think editors are expensive you ain't seen nothing yet.
     
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  5. PoisonSamurai

    PoisonSamurai New Member

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    Yeah, I can imagine that being expensive. :(
    If that's the only option, I guess I'd prefer we focus on the second question:
    Any advice for overcoming that obstacle of having trouble writing mundane events and scenes in between the important plot points?
     
  6. ChickenFreak

    ChickenFreak Contributing Member Contributor Community Volunteer

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    I feel quibbleish about this. Are you sure that you have a lot of those? Can you give an example?

    I ask because as I'm writing my thing, I'm realizing that the layer of glue required between the scenes that interested me is really quite, quite thin. Maybe there's a way for you to eliminate a lot of that mundane stuff?
     
  7. PoisonSamurai

    PoisonSamurai New Member

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    Basically I have the plot points
    -Protagonist travels to place
    -Protagonist fights villan
    etc
    But I have a hard time writing the parts in between, like conversations between characters that aren't essential to the plot but add the meat to the story that takes it from looking like this:

    -He continues through the cave, and finds a large doorway
    -He cautiously enters into the room, which is large and cavernous, with a large pedestal at the far end
    -There are statues on either side of the pedestal, and columns along the edges of the room
    -The room looks ancient, and appears to be very important.
    -He cautiously walks across the room, towards the pedestal

    to an actual book. (Not excellent examples, but I hope that helped explain my problem?)
    It's hard to describe, I can write scenes with detail and even conversations but I have a hard time figuring out what should happen between the big plot points
     
  8. ChickenFreak

    ChickenFreak Contributing Member Contributor Community Volunteer

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    I'm still a bit confused, because the above is sounding like you don't want to write any of it, not just that you don't want to write the mundane parts?

    Edited to add: OK, now I see the "scenes with detail and conversations". But...OK, I remain confused. Can you list the scenes that you don't want to write? Are you saying that you don't want to write the whole cave/doorway/etc. sequence?
     
  9. PoisonSamurai

    PoisonSamurai New Member

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    Haha I do sound kind of like an idiot :superlaugh: It's frustrating how difficult it is to describe what my issue is
    It's definitely not that I don't want to write the story, it's that I can design the bones of the story, and flesh out parts of it, but I have trouble creating the connective tissue between the individual bones... like the scenes in stories where they're sitting in the cafeteria eating lunch and chatting together, but nothing is happening that's bringing the plot forward. It's so hard to put into words other than what I've been saying :meh:
     
  10. Homer Potvin

    Homer Potvin Contributing Member

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    You've got a problem with the design if you have scenes were nothing is happening. That's like designing a house with rooms that won't be used. My advice? Light your outline on fire and just write.
     
  11. PoisonSamurai

    PoisonSamurai New Member

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    Hmm, I guess that makes sense. I feel like there's something I'm missing but I guess I can't really expect other people to understand if I don't really know what it is. The best way I can put it is I just have a hard time connecting the dots, where the dots are plot points. I have a hard time filling chapters- it always seems like there should be more content before I move onto the next plot point.
     
  12. ChickenFreak

    ChickenFreak Contributing Member Contributor Community Volunteer

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    Now we're getting to my point: If the scene doesn't bring the plot forward, why does it exist?

    When you say that you have trouble filling chapters: What's happening in your chapters?
     
  13. PoisonSamurai

    PoisonSamurai New Member

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    I guess character development, to kind of develop the world more?
    For instance, I'm writing a book where eventually there are paranormal things happening, but right now, I'm building up to that. In the first chapter, it introduces the characters, and they go to class where they meet a crazy professor. They meet up after class and I'm lost for what happens now. (I know that sounds pretty lame but I feel like if I can get past the beginning I can get to the actual meat of the plot) It's too early to start working towards the paranormal stuff, because it's only five pages into the story, but I need to develop the world and lead up to that and I'm just kind of lost.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2017
  14. ChickenFreak

    ChickenFreak Contributing Member Contributor Community Volunteer

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    Unfortunately, I think that figuring out what happens next is an essential part of the book. If you look at your characters, maybe there are personal plots for them.
     
  15. Laurin Kelly

    Laurin Kelly Contributing Member Contributor

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    I think the main issue is that most professional writers who are writing and publishing their work (either via a publisher or self publishing) already have more ideas than they know what to do with. Certainly ghostwriters are the exception to that, but as mentioned they're hella expensive and for a reason - writing is hard work, and I personally couldn't imagine doing it for anything other than my own ideas that I'm passionate about turning into a complete story. I don't know any successful writers of my acquaintance who are sitting around in frustration wishing someone would come along with an awesome idea and an outline of important plot points.
     
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  16. Laurin Kelly

    Laurin Kelly Contributing Member Contributor

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    You can always just write your bare bones version and then get some betas to tell you where you need more/better/further explanation or development. You'll have to actually write that part, of course, but they might be helpful in pointing out where you have gaps that really need to be filled out for a reader to understand and enjoy.
     
  17. John Calligan

    John Calligan Member

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    Maybe the kind of book that you would write isn't the kind of book most people talk about?

    There was a lot of old plot driven science fiction back in the day. The Foundation trilogy comes to mind. I feel like I remember the plot really well but other than the Mule and Seldon, I couldn't tell you who any of the characters were. Compare that to Dragon Lance where I could tell you the names of the people who work at the Inn, the mini-bosses, the bothersome characters, all the heroes, the characters that only appear in history and so on. They're like novelized versions of Joss Whedon flicks with almost nothing but character.

    I found an article about it: http://www.dorrancepublishing.com/character-driven-v-plot-driven-writing-whats-difference/

    I don't know if plot driven still gets traditionally published much, but it's a style some people like.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2017
  18. Shadowfax

    Shadowfax Contributing Member Contributor

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    There's your trouble.

    If you think the parts in between are mundane, so will your reader; book gets junked.

    In between the plot points, you're describing the world that you've designed, you're developing the characters.

    Here, your plot points don't really move the plot forward. You could include a long scene describing how the MC travels from X to Y - God knows, it's been done! It was one such detailed description, shop window by shop window, of the MC walking through Brighton that finished Peter James as an author for my wife. Or you could just write. "Michael Caine collected his bag from the carousel and set off into town, to confront his nemesis."
    Fight scenes, too, are famously snooze-inducing.

    A story is generally perceived in terms of the journey the MC makes during it; how his character changes as a result of what he's learned on his journey through the story of how he defeated the evil lord.

    It sounds to me as if you're more influenced by video games, where it's all about the running and shooting, and where character development doesn't take place, with the exception of levelling up after you've killed enough bad guys, than by reading books.
     
  19. big soft moose

    big soft moose Contributing Member Contributor Community Volunteer

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    If that were true Lee Child would be in serious trouble , as ever peoples tastes vary and there is a big market for hero defies authority, destroys property and takes his clothes off (to misquote sweet liberty). Mathew Reilly famously said that he doesnt bother with much character development because most of his characters don't live long enough to be developed ... this hasn't stopped him having 9 or 10 best sellers
     
  20. big soft moose

    big soft moose Contributing Member Contributor Community Volunteer

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    In essence if its mundane cut it ... you don't need to describe mundane stuff because the reader can fill in the blanks e.g if in scene one bob and sue have a fight which ends with him storming out shouting that he's "going to charlie's bar because its the only place he's truly happy" you can open the next scene with bob drinking scotch in charlies bar... you don't need to describe him going down stairs, getting in his car, driving to the bar, parking, going in etc

    you could even skip more and open the next scene the next morning with him waking up in a strangers bed with a crashing hangover and vague memories of the night before.

    In your case I'd suggest opening with the crazy professor and moving swiftly on to the paranormal stuff happening
     
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  21. ajmal

    ajmal New Member

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    I get what you mean about not knowing how to continue or fix up the middle part of the story.
    I have a problem with writing the conversations between the xters. I think what you need to so is to sit and think about what exactly you want from the character and how you want the scene to advance.
    It usually helps.
     

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