Controversial POV - First vs Third Person

I write pretty well in both first and third. They both have their advantages and disadvantages. Third person allows for a wider range of insight into the story, as well as multiple POVs and a more 'objective' outlook on things, if that's the right word to use. First person, however, is a little more loose and fun to write, really getting you right into a character's insane brain and letting you flesh out all of their craziest thoughts and perceptions. It just depends on the story, really; whichever allows more as a vehicle.

 

A novel in the second person? My level of confusion is maximal. Please provide an example. I have never once is my mass consumption of literary material read a story, much less a novel, in the second person.

 

I've never read a novel in 2nd person either. I have, however, seen a few short stories in second person. There's one in Unaccustomed Earth by Jhumpa Lahiri. I can't remember any others right now, but they were mostly short stories on online magazines. Perhaps a quick google search can get a few stories in 2nd person.

 

I think there are stories that lend themselves more to one type of POV or the other.

Most of the novels I have read have been in the first person POV lately. It seems to be more popular these days.

I have read good stories in both types of POV.

One of the most recent stories I've read, The Sookie Stackhouse series, is done in the first person. But watching the tv shows, True Blood, I realized that the books might have been better if they were told in the third person instead of first person. Harris could have shown more of what was going on with the rest of the cast, rather than just the narrow focus on Sookie.

I wasn't too fond of those books. I read the first three in the series, but I prefer the show to the books (which is rare.)

I do like the Dexter show series, but haven't read the books yet.

I tend to write first person. Though I do write third person also. I tend to like the first person more, but I do prefer to have more than one main character view point.

I'm reading Time Traveler's Wife right now, and find the concept of splitting the chapters into both Henry's and Claire's points of view, mid chapter, does work pretty nicely...however strange it was at first. It's not a gripping story though. I am content reading a chapter a night before I pass out. I don't find myself in the grips of the story so that I can't fall asleep and end up reading into the wee hours of the morning.

I like those books that I just can't put down. But I also like the slower paced books I can read one section at a time and digest them for a longer period.

It really just depends on the story and the story telling.

 

In third person, you read what the outside narrator wants you to know.
In first person, you read what the character wants you to know.
In the former, it's just information.
In the latter, it's information the character himself is going out of his way to tell you.
Moreover, the character has a bit more freedom of voice than the writer.

That's the main difference I see. You can reveal the same information in either POV, but the reader will probably respond differently to each.

When the narrator tells me something funny about the character, that's one thing. When the character tells me something funny about himself, it's different. That he would actually say it says something more about the character, which can be funny in itself.

That's the point I was trying to illustrate with my last post, but I don't think it worked very well.

To both exploit the difference and avoid the first person pitfalls, I think you'd need to be a very good writer. . And most of the first person books I've read really don't make much use of it.

I like first as much third. . but I don't usually like reading it so much. Too many amateurs write first person, and it's getting a bad rap for that.

 

I started out in third person when I first began writing. But, as I explored the various emotions of my characters, I found it hard for the reader to get to know them the way I wanted. So I started writing in first person(after I read Twilight actually). It seems to flow better. I don't know, but thats how I've been writing ever since.

 

Ugh. I did the same... tried writing in first person after reading Twilight. It does seem to flow better. But, I believe (as Gardner put it), the result wasn't better writing (for me). Just writing less noticeably bad.

 

Several of the books that are widely considered the best in the language have been written in first person, so obviously there's a place for it somewhere. Actually, reflecting on it, most of my favourites are written in first person. Fallen Angels, Huck Finn, All Quiet on the Western Front...

It obviously writes differently, though. First-person, in my experience, tends to be more character-oriented, while third-person is more event-oriented. First person also tends to fall off the pen more easily, which doesn't necessarily make for good writing, but it makes for existent writing.

This is probably why first-person gets such a bad rap. Rookies who aren't very dedicated don't tend to finish stories written in the third-person, because it's hard. Since first-person is easier, more--bad--works are completed when it's used. There's also quite a few so-very-sophisticated writers who are so-very-excellent at writing and always follow the so-very-important rules to the letter who absolutely abhor the so-very-unprofessional style of first-person writing. Sure, these people are royally missing the point, but they're there and they're vocal.

 

I don't get all the hate for 1st person. You write in whatever POV suits the story best. I tried re-writing my novel into third person, and it didn't work. The MC's voice was gone, flat. However, I've written other stories in third and they came out just fine. I think as long as you approach the story being aware of first's limitations and trappings, you can make it work.

 

^ exactly

I just finished an excellent corporate crime thriller--Paranoia by Joseph Finder. It was in first-person and worked perfectly with the way the story needed to be unfolded to the reader.

I've not read Gardner's book, but it says it's for young writers. It seems that a lot of people warn that 1st person is harder to write than 3rd, so maybe that's why he was trying to get new writers to use 3rd person.

A lot of books I come across are written in 1st person POV. It's not the oddity that some posters in this thread have made it out to be.

 

I am writing my novel entirely in a first person POV although in a mixture of present and past tense, (it has an interesting temporal structure) for the piece i am writing it is the best way to tel lthe story, although my usual method is to use third person it really depends on what you need and want to tell. As for the qoute stating that no jokes are ever told in first person, has the writer never seen standup comic? I can think of a few of the top of my head which are not suitable to be repeated here but only work in first person. Sure i can't think of any fairy tales in first person but thats due to the fact that they were stories that were originally told, much like urban legends where it happened to a friend of a friend, but (and i'm sure it ha been done) wouldn't be interesting to see a first person perspective on some of the most popular fairy tales? Now thta i mention it, i'm sure i've heard about a version of snow white told entirely from the point of view of the huntsman

 

*sigh*

With all due respect, Cogito, I disagree with most of the post quoted below.

But I will do my best to sugarcoat my response.

There is a place for first person and there is a place for third person. As far as I know there is no reason to believe first person "requires much more skill to do well." With all due respect, if anyone is discouraged by this claim, they should think again.

Very effectively, maybe, but not necessarily as well. With all due respect, the Sherlock Holmes stories would not be as good if the narrative wasn't taken directly out of Dr. Watson's mouth.

It's problematic only because, with all due respect, you're trying to turn first person into something it isn't. The whole point of first person novels (in general) is that they don't need more than one POV character. Saying first person is at a disadvantage to third person for this particular reason is like saying third person limited is at a disadvantage to third person omniscient, which as far as I know has never been argued.

This, with all due respect, is highly debatable. Off the top of my head, I have a hard time with the notion that some moments of Treasure Island would be as riveting were we not inside the protagonist's skin.

With all due respect: If you need to do this, don't do first person. Or, if you must, use mixed points of view.

It may not be recommended for novice writers, but with all due respect you're making it sound like it's next to impossible to do. First, it's entirely possible (if theoretically more difficult), and with all due respect I hope writers aren't discouraged by what you've said here.

Second, Christopher Priest's The Prestige is a phenomenal novel and a great example well-done mixed POV. James Patterson's Cross series mixes POV, and while it's may not be a literary hit (disclaimer: I hate the Cross series), it still brings in the big bucks.

Yes. A huge emphasis should be put on this.

Okay, with all due respect I find this ridiculous, and I'd wager that so would some extremely successful (both with critics and with the casual audience) published authors if they saw it.

With all due respect, Cogito, it's one thing to post authoritatively on topics like adverb use, but to make posts like these on topics as subjective as point of view is, with all due respect, unhelpful and misguiding to novice writers.

 

With due respect, Ice, I never said first person is always to be avoided, but I do feel it is a much more limited point of view. I have offered reasons for this in many other posts. It remains my opinion that it is not the best choice for a new writers.

If you want examples of third person novels that are written in third person but have the feel of first person, read Michael Connelly's Harry Bosch novels (e.g. The Black Echo, or The Concrete Blonde).

I have also pointed out several novels that are written well in first person, so I'm no first person hater. But it does require more skill and maturity to do well, in my opinion.

We do encourage discussion here, as opposed to debate. As always, your views are welcome, as long as you do not attack opposing viewpoints (or those who hold them).

Remarks like this do NOT belong here:

Saying "with all due respect: does not alter the fact that you are really saying "your opinion is crap, mine is worth more."

Learn the difference. Lose the attitude.

 

Aside from his moderator powers, Cogito, like any other poster, has only the authority you give him. You can take his experience with the craft and this forum into account, or ignore it at your discretion. Newbies ignore him constantly.

It just so happens that most members who stick around come to respect his opinion. There is a reason for that.

Peace, Ice. Hope you stick around, too. Just take it easy. There is a lot to learn here if you keep an open mind, and try to understand why certain posters say what they do.

 

Third person or First person?

Hello, I need help with this.
I'm writing a short novel, but i keep finding this cross-road:
Third person or First?

I think should use third, since it's a romance. But i'm having trouble with the beggining - naming everybody instead of saying 'my mom' or 'my uncle' is a bit hard.

As well, the advantage I see in using first person is that you can give details of your main character with more ease, make him/her more real.
But every time I use F. P. other characters seem to be blurry and far too secondary.

I'm really decided on using third person, but I feel uncomfortable with it. Any tips?

 

You could just say "his mom" or "his uncle" or "uncle Jimbob". Whatever you might write in first person can usually be written in third. You just need to tweak the words a little. Most people don't really take advantage of the difference, so if there is a diff, it's mainly superficial.

As you noted, it's easier to showcase other characters in third person. You aren't so tightly confined to one character's head space. But you can still show off the qualities, thoughts and emotions of your mc just the same as you would in FP. Most of the time, all you have to do is rephrase the sentence to make sense in third. . . The content remains the same.

 

Even people who defend first person tend to give it very little credit, or they say that first person can do things that third person cannot.

I have read third-person stories that delve into character's heads so thoroughly that I feel as if I am reading it in first person.

 

not sure if this thread is dead or not. but i recently started writing a book. i never even gave it any thought on whether to write 3rd or 1st. i just started writing and as it turns out, it's in 3rd person.

to be honest, it never dawned on me on whether i should write in one or the other based on my story. it just seemed natural to write 3rd. might be due to the fact that i'm a copywriter. i write a lot of scripts and of course you're dictating what each character is saying by starting of with who they are. ad writing is mostly 3rd person, so i guess that's why i gravitated to it.

i just looked at some books from my favorite writers, they all write in 1st person.

personally, i think you can mix 3rd and 1st person in one book.

 

Perhaps one of my favorite examples of first-person writing is in "Fight Club" and "The Stranger". Then again, third-person writing such as the Harry Potter series is too hard to ignore. Personally, I've seen third-person done a little too much mainly because when the author (generally amateur writers such as myself) can't weave a good first-person story without the feeling of adding too many I's, My's, or Me's. The only real sequence where I can make something that sounds good in my POV is through a constant train of thought, which can annoy certain readers.

 

First or Third Person?

I'm currently writing a draft for my story and I kind of hit a snag.

My story has one Main-Main Character (protagonist) and several other Main Characters. Each Main character experiences events that other characters don't experience.

-With First person it's easy to tell who the main character is (the person whose perspective it is). But I find it hard to tell the whole story through the narrow perspective of the main character. It's also hard for me to explain some of the main events that the main character doesn't experience.

-With Third person it's easier to tell the story in it's entirety, with all the events in somewhat plain sight. But due to the personality of the main character, it's hard for me to explain his motives and why he does certain things, without seeing it from his perspective. Also, with the focus of the story switching from character to character constantly, I'm afraid it might be hard for the reader to stay connected with the protagonist.
--{Example with the Lord of the Rings movies: Frodo's the main character, but the way they directed it made me quickly lose interest in Frodo's part of the story.}

I was thinking of maybe telling the story with both First and Third person perspectives, but I'm worried it might confuse the reader.

What do?

 

Mixing first and third person is generally a bad idea. The transitions are jarring to the reader.

That isn't to say it cannot be done, but unless you are a master, you will probably not succeed. Asking the question is a pretty clear indication you should not attempt it.

Nor is switching first person POVs a good choice for a new writer.

Your best bet is to stick with third person POVs. The transitions are easier to manage successfully, and you can get practically as close to one chosen character with third person limited as you can with first person.

 

I think I'm stealing this from Cog, but if you have to ask whether or not to use first person, don't use it. In your case, third person sounds like the best choice anyway. Your concern about not being able to characterise the main character to the same extent is not necessarily valid; third person is capable of getting almost the same level of insight into a character as first person, though since the third person narrator is not that character, you will inevitably lose some of the characterisation you could achieve in first person, though overall it would serve you better.

 

I'm currently writing a draft for my story and I kind of hit a snag.

My story has one Main-Main Character (protagonist) and several other Main Characters. Each Main character experiences events that other characters don't experience. {This sounds to me like a good reason why third-person POV would be the better POV.}

-With First person it's easy to tell who the main character is (the person whose perspective it is). {It should be easy to tell who the main characters are in third-person POV also} But I find it hard to tell the whole story through the narrow perspective of the main character. It's also hard for me to explain some of the main events that the main character doesn't experience. {More good reasons to use third-person rather than first. Also, it's generally harder for a new writer (like me!) to write *well* in first-person.}

-With Third person it's easier to tell the story in it's entirety, with all the events in somewhat plain sight. {Another reason to be in third-person.} But due to the personality of the main character, it's hard for me to explain his motives and why he does certain things, without seeing it from his perspective. {That's a matter of creative writing. Any perspective can be shown effectively in third-person} Also, with the focus of the story switching from character to character constantly, I'm afraid it might be hard for the reader to stay connected with the protagonist. {When I read stories with multiple people telling the story in first-person POV, it becomes distracting and makes it harder to imagine the story. It's like a watching a movie that periodically because static-y.} Also, with the focus of the story switching from character to character constantly, I'm afraid it might be hard for the reader to stay connected with the protagonist. {When switching perspectives in the third-person POV (if written well), the reader isn't distracted from the story. In books I've read that have frequent first-person POV switches, the writing distracts me. A name at the beginning of the chapter to let the reader know whose 1st-person POV the story is in interrupts the story and flow. And it can become confusing. }
--{Example with the Lord of the Rings movies: Frodo's the main character, but the way they directed it made me quickly lose interest in Frodo's part of the story.} {Personally... I never had that problem in the movies. Though, in the books, I most definitely did. But... I was about thirteen when I read them, so my age may have played a role in that.}

I was thinking of maybe telling the story with both First and Third person perspectives, but I'm worried it might confuse the reader.


{I do think switching third- and first-person POV would be confusing and distracting to the reader, just as switching the first-person POV is confusing (at least to me) and distracting.}

What do?

Good luck!