1. Friederich Kugelschreiber

    Friederich Kugelschreiber Senior Member

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    Conundrum

    Discussion in 'Fantasy' started by Friederich Kugelschreiber, Feb 14, 2019.

    So, I have this book that I've been chipping away at for way too long, still in the beginning stages. It's fantasy I guess. But anyway, there's a dark lord who dwells deep in an enchanted evil forest, with imperialistic ambitions. My conception of him was as a goblin breeder, trying to create an army to overrun the world, essentially. Separately, I had devised a race of goblins dwelling on the eastern steppes, also evil, and also attempting to overrun the world. The long and short of it is, I can't have them both involve goblins, especially because they're in cahoots, and it wouldn't look good for the dark lord to be breeding (unethically) hordes of goblins and treating them like meatshields, while also being friends with the free goblins. I don't think that relationship would work out.

    I had considered some sort of division between hobgoblins and goblins, maybe an entirely different race being bred, but nothing works quite as well as goblins. Maybe the dark lord's army is on a volunteer basis? That might be kind of amusing, come to think of it.

    So, yeah. Not sure what to do, any suggestions would be helpful.
     
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  2. Harmonices

    Harmonices Member

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    So they are evil shitbags, these free goblins? I reckon they wouldn't give a flying f about other goblins, any other goblins. I think they would only have loyalty to themselves.

    They might even trade their support of this evil lord, in return for some slave bred goblins that they could then kick about and dominate. Plus, these bred goblins would be 'lesser' purely by virtue of being bred in captivity. Think of this world, how many human races, otherwise very similar other than language and skin colour, have treated other human beings like subhuman crapola?

    I'd find a word that the free goblins use to describe the bred goblins, something derogatory and contemptuous that 'dehumanises' and others them for the free goblins. Just like humans do. Slave crud, disposables, imitants - you get my drift.
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2019
  3. J. J. Wilding

    J. J. Wilding Member

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    It would be far more interesting to me as a reader if the goblins were actually a passive race and quite pleasant to other races, but are being forced into doing the dark lord's will. That struggle to try and fight his magic, the turmoil it would cause seeing the relationships between other races break down during war, for their whole reputation to crumble... they would seek redemption and whoever you've got as the hero or heroes of your story could free them and turn them on the dark lord? In that sequence of events, the dark lord might retreat, disappear for a few chapters and start delving into dark magic to create his own army of goblin warriors who don't possess a soul or a conscience and who can't be turned against him. If you have another race of goblins lurking around (I suggest coming up with tribe names, ensignias for each one, customs, etc...), perhaps they take offence at their likeness being used for these new abominations.

    There's all kinds of possibilities but yes, having two factions who want to take over the world for seemingly no point will cause problems. You need a good motivation (elves stole the homelands of all the goblin tribes and murdered the leaders, for example) and my version of events is a little more open ended and ready for some excellent lore, of which I'm sure you have plenty. Happy writing friend!
     
  4. Friederich Kugelschreiber

    Friederich Kugelschreiber Senior Member

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    The process of writing that helped clarify my thoughts. I'm pretty sure that the dark lord's goblin army is recruited on a volunteer basis. He's probably having difficulties paying them, and the idea of a cash strapped dark lord kind of tickles me.

    That's a cool idea, but I'm pretty set on having my goblins be irredeemable, barbaric savages. I'll think about that, though.

    Thanks Harmonices, what you said makes quite a bit of sense. I'll throw it in the brain can.
     
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  5. J.D. Ray

    J.D. Ray Member Supporter

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    How about, instead of breeding goblins, your dark lord is buying them as slaves from the goblin king? Maybe within the goblin nation are a bunch of tribes, and the king is selling off the tribes that threaten him, don't agree with him, have a different nose than his tribe, etc. Or maybe there's not even a central goblin king, just different tribes who capture opponents and sell them to the dark lord and take the vacant land.

    Here you have the opportunity to have the dark lord scraping around to come up with something to trade once his cash runs out. "No, no, I'm out of gold coins this month. How about this nice pile of animal hides? No? How about... what? Swords? No, I need to keep my swords, can't trade those. Are you in need of any fine enchanted evil forest logs?"
     
  6. Friederich Kugelschreiber

    Friederich Kugelschreiber Senior Member

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    I'm very glad I posted here. Thanks.
     
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  7. Matt E

    Matt E Ruler of the planet Omicron Persei 8 Supporter

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    Humans have been perfectly willing, historically speaking, to work with the most vile regimes if their goals align. If Goblins are similar, then all it takes is for the free goblins to otherize the other group of unfree goblins. If they have an attitude or “well, we’re hobgoblins, so therefore more intellegent,” they can probably convince themselves that it’s fine to do business with the dark lord guy so long as it’s in their interest. Even if the whole hobgoblin / goblin thing is just pseudoscience.

    This could get into real world analogy stuff pretty quick which may or may not be where you want to go though.
     
  8. J.D. Ray

    J.D. Ray Member Supporter

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    Clinical studies have clearly shown that hobgoblins are more intelligent than goblins. Regular goblins, and not the superior hobgoblins, are genetically inferior, and removing them from the presence of hobgoblins ensures that the superior lineages of the latter won’t be diluted. Furthermore, goblins have a religion that is inferior to that of hobgoblins, and one with tenets that are counter to those of the hobgoblin religion. Clearly the goblin scourge needs to be cleansed from the hobgoblin lands. And if selling them to the dark lord, to be used for his own purposes, enriches the pockets of the hobgoblins? So much the better.
     
  9. Maverick_nc

    Maverick_nc Member

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    Orcs and Uruks spring immediately to my mind. Genetically different races yes but working together for a common (evil) cause whilst simultaneously hating on each other. Maybe the goblins have a class based system and those bred in captivity are viewed as low-rent scumbags they can boss around, might make for some interesting interplay and conflict between goblin commanders.
     
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  10. Bolu Kai

    Bolu Kai Member

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    I think of reality. African Americans. Caucasians. Asians. Indians. Native Americans. We are all the same, but we let little things like the color of our skin or the way we speak or what we eat determine the way we treat one another. Some people refuse to mingle with other races while others intermingle and even marry into other ethnicities. One example is my former boss; she grew up in a non-jewish religion (I forget which religion). her and her husband are both white skinned, but religion was the "conflict" in their relationship. She married a Jewish man and converted. They raised their children under the Jewish religion and celebrate Jewish holidays.

    I almost think playing with the goblins on both ends might be kind of interesting. You could compare it to how humans treat others. Maybe the goblins are different shades of green and have a different culture. Maybe these two races don't naturally mix together for whatever reason and that creates obstacles for the dark lord's as he attempts to breed or put together the army (similar to LOTR Orcs and Uruks as mentioned by Maverick_nc). Hell, maybe your dark lord is racist and looks at one group of goblins as inferior while looking at others as superior. Or maybe that species of goblin is built better for being a meatshield just like some horses are built for performing farm labor rather than racing.

    I don't know. I am just spitballing...
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2019

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