1. MythMachine

    MythMachine Active Member

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    Convoluted Plot? Mary Sues and Gary Stus?

    Discussion in 'Fantasy' started by MythMachine, Dec 10, 2017.

    Well, I've hit a mental roadbloack. Whether or not that has to do with my current life predicament and emotional state, I don't know, but I'm having trouble proceeding with my novel. I've written the first chapter and revised it, but because I'm my own worst skeptic and critic, I am fretting over my characters and the plot elements that progress them through the story. I'm going to use this thread to describe the story and characters, and hopefully get feedback on their quality from all you lovely WF folks :love:
    It would mean a lot to get as many honest responses as possible. Don't fluff me. Just lay it bare, even if it's going to hurt.

    As a precursor, this is a high fantasy novel, with little to no elements of our real world involved. It was created from scratch, races and all. Also note that the story isn't a typical hero vs. villain fantasy. Each of the main cast are embroiled in their own internal conflicts, all of which culminate in the climax. The one character who could be considered the villain is already long dead, and the central protagonist is the biggest threat in the story. A lot of the story is based around her growth and the growth of the other characters relative to her.

    The Characters:
    Treilin
    - Born to a tribe of water folk, the Tidelings, who live in the deep ocean, she arrives on the surface along with her younger brother in order to cure her people of a disease that threatens to wipe them out. She is energetic and optimistic, and has always desired to explore the mysterious surface world. She is highly adaptable to change, but underneath her tough texture, her greatest flaw is her inability to cope with stress and loss. Another potential flaw is her unbound curiosity and unpredictability.

    Julin - Brother to Treilin, he is quite the stark contrast to her. Quiet, reserved, and shy. He was reluctant to join her on her journey, but did so at the request of his family. Despite his apprehensive personality, Julin is incredibly protective of his sister, and would not hesitate to sacrifice himself to keep her safe from harm.

    Ombo - A giant living in the Ermac Woods, Ombo lives a solitary life, hoping to escape from the cultural chains of his people. Having lived for centuries, he is very wise and caring, and seeks to avoid conflict, until the day he happens upon the brother and sister mentioned above. He doesn't speak much of himself, but he is widely known among the denizens of the world outside Ermac.

    The World:
    Speaking of the surface world....
    The land in which the main cast travels is known as Altar. It is a continent of constant shifting change, spurred on by a outpouring of mystical energy known, quite fittingly, as the Surge, which ravages its surface. Because of this sporadic phenomenon, most of the tribes have been forced to a nomadic lifestyle, which changes according the the path of the Surge. The land itself is constantly being altered, destroyed and recreated, making consistent mapping impossible. Many of the races of the world have learned to live and survive together, but each clan's respective views on the nature of the Surge have caused great conflict. Some believe that it is simply the energy of life made physical, while others view the Surge as the wrath of a god.

    The point around which everything on Altar seems to revolve is a strange tower, nestled at the heart of the continent. Many believe this tower is the source or cause of the Surge, as it is the one place that the Surge refuses to touch. Others simply see it as an accursed place ruled by an evil sorcerer bent on destroying the world, however the truth behind its history is much more complex and sinister. I'll get into that in the story section below.

    The Story:
    It begins with our giant friend, Ombo, happening upon the two young Tidelings, who at this point are not named, and do not understand the language of the surface dwellers. They've just escaped from a band of slavers who captured them shortly after their arrival to shore. Ombo takes in the battered cubs, and decides to keep them under his wing until they are able to stand on their own feet. The unavoidable confrontation with the slavers, forces Ombo to kill, something which the siblings are not accustomed to.

    After leaving the Ermac Woods, and over the course of their journey, Ombo steadily teaches the Tidelings of the ways and dangers of the surface world, and they gradually learn to communicate, but this leap into an unfamiliar realm of knowledge introduces them to the darker side of life on Altar. It is gradually revealed that Treilin and Julin have a mysterious connection to the Surge, and piece by piece, the origin of their reclusive race is uncovered. It turns out that the Tidelings are an a biologically engineered race, created by a resident of the tower previously mentioned to breed a weapon of mass destruction. Treilin, the sister, is that weapon, and over the course of her life has been slowly and unwittingly collecting the energy released by the Surge inside her body, the process of which has accelerated since her arrival on the surface. This makes her, what is essentially a ticking time bomb: Once she reaches full capacity, the release of that energy would be catastrophic.

    From the point where she learns her origin and apparent purpose, Treilin undergoes an identity crisis, and despite the dissuasion of Julin, Ombo, and her other companions, travels alone to the tower. While there, she learns of her origins and the creator of her species, a human scientist by the name of Orland McKinnon. He, along with a great number of other humans, took refuge in the tower during the end of the previous iteration of the world thousands of years prior. It turns out that the humans of this world had stripped the land of its resources, and the planet retaliated by releasing the Surge, a force powered by the souls of those who died and returned to the earth. Faced with extinction, man sought a way to save themselves, and that's when Orland, a widowed scientist seeking retribution for the loss of his family. He would end up dying long before seeing his revenge through, but not before he finished his creation, the Shiftlings, the predecessors of the Tidelings.

    Before leaving the tower, Treilin encounters one of these Shiftlings, which lacks the self preservation and intelligence of any other races. It attacks her, and after failing to escape, she is forced to kill it. This is a pivotal moment, as it is the first life she's taken outside of her hunts for food, and the kill sets her emotional state on a steep downward spiral. When she returns to her brother and friends, she is changed, more defensive and avoids direct contact with the others, even forgetting her entire reason for arriving to the surface, to find a cure for her people.

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    I won't go into any more detail further into the story, but rather, I'd like to ask this:
    Does the MC, Treilin, come across as a Mary Sue? I don't feel like she is, but there is something off about her character to me, and I can't place a finger on it. Is it that I'm putting too much focus on her as the main character?

    My other question:
    Is the plot too complex for its own good? Even after dumbing it down quite a bit, I'm fear that I'm still overdeveloping the story and characters. Does anyone have any tips for simplifying things a bit?

    I can provide more information as needed, but as I requested, please be honest, brutally so, if necessary. Writing this story is very important to me... thank you ^^
     
  2. Gadock

    Gadock Active Member

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    Well to start off, well done, this seems very interesting. Now to your questions:
    Does it come across as a Mary Sue?
    No, not at all, she seems to have quite a few flaws already. Have you written, for yourself, all the pros/cons, appearances, flaws of Treilin? It helped me personally not making perfect characters.
    Is the plot too complex?
    That entirely depends on how well you can write, and so far you’ve made it clear what you want and how you’re trying to get there, so I’d say go for it. It also largely depends on the reader, so one might get confused whilst another might not.

    Of the entire story and side info, the only thing I don’t like is how Treilin is forced to kill and how that affects her. If she’s used to killing animals, and is forced to kill someone that is still mindless, is also basically an animal. I think anyone in that position would rationalise it to: “I had to as it’s an animal.” I believe, with what I think you want to achieve, you will have to have her kill a fully developed character. So that, that persons death would also effect the story.

    Further, I look forward to reading it. ^^
     
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  3. ChickenFreak

    ChickenFreak Contributor Contributor

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    This isn't telling me a lot. Everybody has trouble with stress and loss--in what way is she different? Also, a person who has trouble coping with stress, who is dealing with a disease wiping out their people, who is also "optimistic", feels off.

    Curiosity doesn't seem like a flaw at all.

    "Unpredictability" confuses me, because it seems to be from an observer's point of view. The fact that a stranger watching me can't predict what I will do next doesn't strike me as a flaw in me. Maybe impulsivity expresses what you mean?

    I'm not getting a feel for this person.

    He's "incredibly protective", but he didn't want to go with her. That would make sense if he didn't want HER to go either.

    Also, what makes these two the best ones to go on this quest? It's clearly not a crazy-kid thing because the family is urging it. Is Treilin a master diplomat or scientist?

    Why is someone who leads a solitary life widely known? Also, 'wise and caring' sounds dangerous--it sounds like he's going to be pontificating. And so far, I'm not getting a personality here.

    Re the world, you mention that everything keeps changing, but then you mention landmarks--the Ermac woods, the tower, etc. Why do these stand still?

    This sounds like a pretty long period of backstory and of passivity on the part of the protagonists. I think this is unwise. I would suggest more plot than this.

    Also, her quest is about a disease, so what she does should, IMO, have some connection with that goal. It sounds like she forgot about it entirely, even before the violent incident. And why would the violent incident make her forget it? It sounds like she lived with countless people dying from this disease; why was she happy-optimistic up to this point, and at this point collapsed?

    Do you even need the disease? It sounds like the focus is Treilin's history; the disease is feeling like just a plot starter or red herring. Maybe you need something less dramatic for that plot starter.
     
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  4. crappycabbage

    crappycabbage Member

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    In large, I think you have an interesting story world to work with, and I think it's got a lot of potential. For the main character, I'd say she's too contradictory. Yes, people are often contradictory, but for a book character in an adventure I would pick out just a few things to start with, stuff like: she's curious and goes around poking at stuff she shouldn't or ask a lot of questions, she's also resiliant and keeps her chin up when things are bad, but now and then the loss she's experienced can make her react in certain ways in some situations.

    I'd scratch the unpredictability in your MC, but that might just be a matter of personal taste. I like it when characters are predictable enough that the reader will know that a coming situation will prove very challenging for this character. There's a tension/suspense in that which I enjoy. Having an unpredictable character usually means they can act in every which way and that makes it hard to get a grip on them. I guess I've seen the trait been badly used as a plot device too much, just to excuse stuff happening.

    I also think that the goal of finding a cure for the disease is kinda large. It's a reason for the quest, but I would couple that goal with a more personal goal for your MC. I think an internal goal, which only has meaning to the MC, might make you feel a lot closer to her.
    I think it's a story definitely worth going on with, and I wouldn't mind reading a book like that. Keep up the hard work, and have a lot of fun with it. :)
     
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