1. MartinM

    MartinM Banned

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    Copyright use of songs and maps in my novel...

    Discussion in 'Research' started by MartinM, Oct 29, 2021.

    Copyright use of songs and maps in my novel...


    Not sure where to post this question, so ADMIN feel free to move it at your discretion. It’s two questions but on similar subjects. I’m a complete amateur and this is just a hobby, but I’m trying to write an Age of Sail novel.

    Question 1

    With a sailing novel I want to include several maps. Very basic and clean with some additional information added too them. I’ve found many basic drawings that are suitable and free on Google without any beneficial owner. Is it ok to use them or is there a process I need to go through?

    Question 2

    For what ever reason I use multiple times the lyrics to ‘The Clapping Song’ by Shirley Ellis. I know who the record is licensed too etc. What is the process of asking permission or is it one of credit notification in the opening copyrighted book page?


    Any help to point me in the right direction would be much appreciated.


    MarinM
     
  2. evild4ve

    evild4ve Critique is stranger than fiction Supporter Contributor

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    hi I'm interested in this too so will follow the thread. Would it be okay to link the maps if they are on Google?
     
  3. Steerpike

    Steerpike Felis amatus Contributor

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    Speaking in terms of the U.S. only:

    #2--you're best off getting permission. Simply crediting the rights holder isn't enough. Fair Use is difficult with respect to song lyrics because the work is relatively short so the amount of the work you're using is likely to be substantial.

    #1--when someone creates a work, whether it's a map or what have you, there is a copyright attached by operation of law. The fact that the work is on the internet with no owner listed doesn't change that. The owner of the copyright could still come after you for copyright infringement, and this does happen when people take photos that are seemingly 'free' online. Anyone could post the map online--it doesn't have to be put there by the rights holder. Absent some indication that the owner of the copyright put the work online and is making it available under some kind of free license to whoever wants to use it, I'd be careful. And, if there is a license attached to a work that is freely available online, you'll want to review the license to make sure it covers the use you're contemplating.
     
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  4. MartinM

    MartinM Banned

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  5. Bruce Johnson

    Bruce Johnson Contributor Contributor Contest Winner 2023

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    You'd want to check the actual terms when you buy that vector image.

    If you want to play around and create your own maps, QGIS is open source and may give you more flexibility (the vector images and layers you use may not be though). But you'll need to review the license agreement to see if what you produce can be used in a for profit book, and if the said map you create is copyrightable (copyleft).

    I was playing around with it and created these about a year ago, it was my completely impractical back up plan in case the N.F.L. had to relocate due to COVID (the logos were added manually and wouldn't be reproducible)





    Those aren't very complicated but that's after learning it for maybe one week but you can add many layers, etc to make more attractive maps. But like the vector image you posted, some of the layers and vector images may be free, some not, and even if the image is free, there may be restrictions on how you can use them.
     
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  6. Bruce Johnson

    Bruce Johnson Contributor Contributor Contest Winner 2023

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    Reading the standard license agreement, it doesn't look like you have to pay any royalties, but you may want to consult with someone knowledgeable about these things. In the event your book has a print run over 250,000 you have to pay the more expensive Expanded license but it would be inconsequential at that point.

    By the way, why wouldn't you use this map of Spain?

    https://www.vectorstock.com/royalty-free-vector/map-spain-vector-26533010
     
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  7. SapereAude

    SapereAude Contributor Contributor

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    Did you read the license?

    https://www.vectorstock.com/faq/members/standard-license

    Note that when you click the "Expanded" license option, it says it's for "Print on demand & resale." So I think for use in a published book you will need the Expanded license, for $39.99.
     
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  8. Bruce Johnson

    Bruce Johnson Contributor Contributor Contest Winner 2023

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    I missed that too. It actually has a note at the bottom of the standard license that says Expanded is needed for resale. I noticed the 250,000 limit but not that.

    So you can print up to 250,000 if it's for free but to even sell one copy you need to buy the expanded.
     
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  9. evild4ve

    evild4ve Critique is stranger than fiction Supporter Contributor

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    Given it's sailing, I suppose the map might be quite complicated and use technical information - which is why I thought a link might be useful.
    But given it's a novel, it might be that anyone could draw out a rough version on a separate sheet of paper - if all the reader needs is a mental image of where the deep bits are (sorry that is the level I'd be starting at reading this genre). The layout of the world is public domain, after all. Certainly it shouldn't cost $14.99 for an outline of Spain that would take a few minutes to do with a pen tool. :eek:
    If it is a specialist maritime site, or sub-site of Google, the copyright restrictions might be totally different, but there should be a link somewhere to the terms.
     
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  10. petra4

    petra4 Active Member

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    Looking for pics of maps, you need to search for “Creative Commons” before copy write starts being affected. Sites such as Splash are free. Sites such as Dreamtime will ask for a fee upfront.

    Note: this info was current in 2015/16.

    As for the music, you need to get permission. Some, may allow it depending on its use and to acknowledge publishing rights.
     
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  11. MartinM

    MartinM Banned

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    Thank-you all for the replies. Please keep adding any information you think is worthwhile. The questions asked proved my first thoughts correct, it’s a minefield. I’ve spoken to a couple of people that are supposed to be in the know, and this was their insight.

    Question 1 regarding maps

    Even with a very basic two-tone plain outline, with an author’s extra additions its better if the map as some form of origin. A publisher will need to research the authenticity of all the maps used, even if you hand drew them yourself.

    The extended license option from the likes of ‘Vector stock’ are good, but become problematic if you add items to the map. That’s were this product falls down.

    The advice given was to have the publisher recommend a cartographer to draw your maps, even if they are very simple ones. They copyright them and licence it back to the publisher. A publisher will never authorize the use of any such off the shelf products. Its too dangerous for legal blow back.

    Best advice, don’t use maps if at all possible.


    Question 2 regarding song lyrics

    How to Use Song Lyrics in Your Fiction [INFOGRAPHIC] - Creative Law Center

    Dropped a nice link with a good explanation here. The ‘Ready Player One’ novel was interesting with its many pop culture references. Never mentions the lyrics, just the song only. And when he does mention a lyric, it was a weak copyright registration of the tv show it was used in as a loophole.

    My use of one lyric several times in the novel am told is a big no. The song falls between 1926 and 1977 and even with the owner’s permission the advice was still no. The novel publisher would (like the map) not want to risk future blow back for whatever reason, it’s still a risk. That’s why you never see it in books. You will see a song title only…

    Best advice, if you need to use a lyric… write it yourself!

    It seems taking into account a publisher’s risk is a factor. I’m no Patrick O’Brien so I can see their angle even if you could legally wiggle round it…


    Many thanks for the feedback

    MartinM
     
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  12. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Admin Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    this really depends on what the creative commons licence allows... not all of them allow commercial use.

    Also with free photo sites, and for that matter stock libraries do make sure that the person who uploaded the picture actually has the copyright.

    And the best advice anyone can give you is to get your legal advice from a lawyer not a writingforum
     
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  13. evild4ve

    evild4ve Critique is stranger than fiction Supporter Contributor

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    I wonder if it's possible to use maps where the copyright has expired? If up-to-date navigational paraphernalia needs to be shown that might need a recent map, but otherwise it's not like the continents will have shifted all that much since the 19th century.
     
  14. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Admin Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    yeah but be careful that the copyright has actually expired in the uK (and i think the US) its 70 years after the death of the creator, except where it isn't
     
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  15. Bruce Johnson

    Bruce Johnson Contributor Contributor Contest Winner 2023

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    That's a good question, what are the copyright laws on maps and visual art, or photographs? Regardless, one would need access to a quality scan of the said map or image and that's what you'd probably be paying to use.
     
  16. Steerpike

    Steerpike Felis amatus Contributor

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    In the U.S., most such works from before 1926 would be in the public domain.

    Google Books has some pretty good scans of old books (depending on the book). You can search specifically for books from the 19th century, for example. Maps in any of those should be safe enough.
     
  17. SapereAude

    SapereAude Contributor Contributor

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    Are U.S. Coast and Geodetic Survey (a.k.a. "USGS") maps copyrighted? Since they are created using taxpayer (public) dollars, I would think they are in the public domain.
     
  18. Steerpike

    Steerpike Felis amatus Contributor

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    Yes, but I think it's only the case if a government employee creates the work within the scope of his/her employment. If the government hires an independent contractor to create a work, then I don't believe it is in the public domain even though it was paid for with tax-payer money. I can check this when I have the time.
     
  19. evild4ve

    evild4ve Critique is stranger than fiction Supporter Contributor

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    If it's being printed a few inches across in b&w inside a normal paperback, it might just need a vector image... why not get a reprint of a 1600s nautical chart on ebay for <$20 and trace over the useful parts in Inkscape (or similar)? I suppose these sellers might owe royalties to a museum or whoever made the scan of the map, but... it would amaze me if they pay them.
     
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