Critique services worth it?

Discussion in 'Revision and Editing' started by Kwills79, Nov 27, 2017.

  1. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Admin Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    To be fair the money I put aside for my writing projects is separate to the "holy shit the car's broken down" fund. I'm also in the fortunate position of not having kids. But as I said I'm going down the indie/self route - I absolutely wouldn't pay for editing if I was querying agents intent on a trad deal.

    Also I do intend to make a second income from my writing (eventually I'm under no illusion that it will be easy or quick) so its an investment rather than a passion project fund (that money goes on new carving/turning kit and other stuff for my non income hobbies )

    If you really really want to pay for editting (or whatever) you can save up the cost - but like anything else it depends how much you want it - do you want it more than smoking, drinking, going out, eating meat, or whatever.... In the same way that people pay for cameras, mountain bikes, golf clubs , car mods, or whatever it is they want the most
     
  2. LostThePlot

    LostThePlot Naysmith Contributor

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    Well quite; and in that case I wish you gods speed with whatever you spend that on. But that's a far cry from saying "spend your rent on your writing". If you can live and have a rainy day fund and save up for some stuff for your writing; then by all means do that. But it's only in the situation that it's even really an argument over if you should spend that money. If you have the money to spend on writing specifically then it's fine to spend that however you want. But if you don't have a fund for writing and just for writing and nothing but writing then spending money as if all your money is just for writing and nothing but writing is a bit... Yeah, not a great plan.
     
  3. deadrats

    deadrats Contributor Contributor

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    I'm not quite sure where I stand on this. I think you do get what you pay for and investments can pay off. People publish and beat the odds all the time. If you spend a few thousand on an editor, but than you land a book deal for twice that or more, it would then be worth it and everyone and their kids could eat. I don't plan to self publish, but I do want to put my best efforts before the gatekeepers. I know someone (through people, not personally) who spent what most of us would call a ridiculous amount of money on services to get her novel in shape for submission. But what she made in an advance was an even more ridiculous amount. I don't think writing is like gambling. I think we, as writers, need to make smart decisions and really have a good idea of how this industry works.
     
  4. ChickenFreak

    ChickenFreak Contributor Contributor

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    Spending a bag of money in the hope that you get a publishing contract is totally gambling. It may be more like horse racing than roulette, because in horse racing you can do some research and improve your odds. It's still gambling.
     
  5. LostThePlot

    LostThePlot Naysmith Contributor

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    Yes, 100% agree.

    Publishing is a long shot, by any definition of the term. It's not likely to happen, no matter how much research you do or how much you've put into it. And as I said before; for a 1000 to 1 shot you might as well put a dollar on it, just in case. But you can't bet money you don't have just because you might win.
     
  6. BayView

    BayView Huh. Interesting. Contributor

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    And there's nothing wrong with gambling, as long as you can afford to lose.

    But again, most published writers do not pay for editing before submitting to agents, so... is there a way to connect that to the horse racing analogy? Maybe paying for a tip sheet?

    ETA: Posted before I was ready. Cats + keyboards = anarchy!

    But I wanted to add something about valuing your time. If we're trying to find a gambling analogy that works, I think we should somehow acknowledge that the biggest investment most authors make in their work is their time.

    So to some extent, paying for editing would make sense in that the big gamble has already been made--you've already invested a hell of a lot of time into your story, so paying a couple thousand dollars to make that time pay off may make sense (assuming you have the money to spend).

    But I still come back to the difficulties of knowing your money is actually going to make your work better, or enough better to make the difference between it being publishable and not.

    Honestly... if your work isn't good enough to get an agent without professional editing, then I'm not sure it's going to be good enough to get a publisher even if you get an agent with the polished version. Alternatively, if it's good enough to get a publisher after having been polished, then it's probably good enough to get an agent pre-polish, and there are a lot of agents who give at least some editorial suggestions to their clients.
     
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2017
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  7. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Admin Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    Or you might save up 1000 dollars and put it on it after you've carefully researched form etc (its not a perfect metaphor because a horse that has 1/1000 odds has no realistic chance of winning), but what you don't do it put next fridays rent money on it however certain you are of a sure thing , because rule 1 of gambling/investing is never to bet more than you can afford to lose
     
  8. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Admin Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    Wasn't it Mark Twain who said that if he won a thousand dollars he'd spend half of it on whores and whisky, and the other half he'd waste ..
     
  9. LostThePlot

    LostThePlot Naysmith Contributor

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    Someone definitely said that anyway. And, well, there's a lot of truth to that. Because money spend on having fun is important. And if you're setting your money on fire you might as well have a really good time with it on the way. It beats spending it on work and then not seeing a penny back.
     
  10. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Admin Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    Google tells us it was Hunter S Thompson , and it was a million not a thousand - its also in No country for old men as ". It's too late. I spent it. A million and a half on whores and whiskey... and the rest of it, I just sorta wasted"
     
  11. LostThePlot

    LostThePlot Naysmith Contributor

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    That makes sense. Thompson knew a good time when he saw it ;) And, well, if you're throwing money away on a long shot then why not spend it hedonisticly? At least you know what you're getting from a dumptruck full of coke and a hummer full of hookers.
     
  12. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Admin Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    A really bad come down and several STDs ?
     
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  13. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Admin Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    Incidentally my favorite HST quote is

    ""I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me."
     
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  14. LostThePlot

    LostThePlot Naysmith Contributor

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    Yeah but you have a great time getting there ;)

    And seriously; the official term these days is STI. I mention this because my initials are STD and I don't appreciate the old name being used :p If you're curious; my dad did the same exact thing twice. My half-brother who is much older than me is VD; the initialism they had before STD. *sigh*.
     
  15. LostThePlot

    LostThePlot Naysmith Contributor

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    Thompson was fucking awesome. He died how he lived; full of fucking drugs and at 110% intensity :p I love that Johnny Depp's depiction of him in Fear And Loathing is reportedly incredibly true to life. The two were close friends and Depp even paid for Thompson's remains to be shot out of a cannon in accordance with Thompson's wishes. Also, there's file footage of Thompson and some reporter shooting automatic weapons just for the fuck of it and that is awesome :D
     
  16. badgerjelly

    badgerjelly Contributor Contributor

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    Is the rule simply to enjoy getting critique? If we pay for something with hard earned cash then we should reap the rewards as best we can.

    The money is wasted is you keep on using it in the same way expecting different results. Once bitten and all that. Just common sense isn't it?

    Perhaps it is a good idea to ask for a free review of your work and then compare that to a paid one. If you see a worthy difference (you value it as appropriate to payment made) then pay for your work to be reviewed again, but still seek free critique to measure it against.

    And I repeat, learn to critique your own work by offering critique to others.
     
  17. Shadowfax

    Shadowfax Contributor Contributor

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    The Hunter S. Thompson quote that Google gives me is "He was forever yapping about freedom of the press and keeping the paper going, but if he'd had a million dollars and all the freedom in the world he'd still put out a worthless newspaper because he wasn't smart enough to put out a good one" - from The Rum Diary (1998)

    No Country for Old Men (2005) Cormac McCarthy

    George Best upload_2017-12-18_8-44-58.jpeg

    Died 2005, quit football 1972, can't find when he said it.


    Actually, New York Mets pitcher Tug McGraw (died 2004, quit baseball 1984) is deemed to have uttered this quote. It went something like, "I spent 90% of the money I earned on women, Irish whiskey and fast cars...the other 10% I wasted." Again, can't find when he said it.

    Take your pick...
     

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