Tags:
  1. kaleidoscopeyes

    kaleidoscopeyes New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2014
    Messages:
    4
    Likes Received:
    0

    Punctuation Question

    Discussion in 'Word Mechanics' started by kaleidoscopeyes, Aug 2, 2014.

    Hello,

    I have a question regarding the use of en dashes and hyphens within the same phrase. Sorry for the slew of examples, but I was wondering whether they were punctuated correctly. The en-dash means "to", and the hyphens are used in the compound modifiers. Without an option to rewrite I was wondering if these could pass punctuation-wise.

    a group of 40–45-year-old men
    a group of 40–45-year-olds
    a 10–14-inch piece of pipe
    a 20–30-degree temperature difference
    a $50–$60-million-a-year contract
    a $40,000–$50,000-a-year joint income
    a 10–15-mile hike
    a 10–20-pound weight loss
    14–16-, 17–19-, and 20–22-year olds
    a 10–20%-a-year increase in profits
    a 10–20-percent-a-year increase in profits
    70–90-cent-a-week raises

    Obliged,
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2014
  2. cutecat22

    cutecat22 The Strange One Contributor

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2014
    Messages:
    2,780
    Likes Received:
    1,424
    Location:
    England
    Not 100% sure but I would probably write them as:

    a group of 40 – 45 year old men
    a group of 40 – 45 year olds
    a 10 – 14 inch piece of pipe
    a 20 – 30 degree temperature difference
    a $50 – $60 million-a-year contract
    a $40,000 – $50,000 a year joint income
    a 10 – 15 mile hike
    a 10 – 20 pound weight loss
    14 – 16, 17 – 19 and 20 – 22 year olds
    a 10 – 20% a year increase in profits (or, a 10 - 20% increase in profits per year)
    a 10 – 20 percent a year increase in profits
    70 – 90 cent a week raises (or, 70 - 90 cent per week rise)

    You will find loads more info here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dash on hyphens, em dashes and en dashes.

    Yeah, I didn't know there was an en one and an em one too!

    x
     
  3. Catrin Lewis

    Catrin Lewis Contributor Contributor Contest Winner 2023 Community Volunteer

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2014
    Messages:
    4,406
    Likes Received:
    4,755
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    @kaleidoscopeyes, I think using en dashes to signify a range of numbers would be fine in nonfiction, as chart labels or on a list. But in fiction you'd want to spell it out, including the numbers. "The men milling outside the factory gates were forty to forty-five years old." Like that.

    If the situation calls for the dashes, I believe how you originally had it, without the spaces, is correct. They are, as you have it, en dashes between the numbers, which are a fuzz longer than hyphens (my keyboard doesn't even have one). An em (double) dash replaces a comma (see here).

    Whether you put the hyphen between the second number and its label seems to be a matter of style. Traditionally it's been called for when the hyphenated phrase acts as an adjective, but lately writers have dispensed with it.

    To be safe, here's what The Chicago Manual of Style site says: http://www.chicagomanualofstyle.org/qanda/data/faq/topics/HyphensEnDashesEmDashes/faq0002.html.
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2014
  4. Catrin Lewis

    Catrin Lewis Contributor Contributor Contest Winner 2023 Community Volunteer

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2014
    Messages:
    4,406
    Likes Received:
    4,755
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    Oh, hey, for getting your en-dash, check this out: http://www.dashhyphen.com/dash-keyboard/.

    Let's see if it works. "A group of 40–45-year-old men." No, wait— there they are!

    :agreed:
     
  5. kaleidoscopeyes

    kaleidoscopeyes New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2014
    Messages:
    4
    Likes Received:
    0
    Thank you, everybody. I'm very sorry—I meant nonfiction for those examples. I see that in nonfiction books at Google Books my examples—without spaces—are frequently used.

    E.g.: a 10–20-pound weight gain
    a 6–12-inch pipe

    etc., etc.

    I was curious whether this trend—in nonfiction—is becoming the norm.
     
  6. Kat Hawthorne

    Kat Hawthorne New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2012
    Messages:
    95
    Likes Received:
    17
    Honestly, I am not familiar with that trend in nonfiction, but the way you have used the en dash in your examples is correct. Typically, there would be a "thin space" on either end of the en and its numeral, but not everyone has that option in their processing software. It's the em dash (a completely different animal) that does not have spaces on either side. You were right to use the en in these instances though.
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice