1. P1LGR1M

    P1LGR1M Member

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    Debut Novel Length?

    Discussion in 'Traditional Publishing' started by P1LGR1M, Jul 31, 2022.

    I have read that 90K is "the sweet spot," but I would appreciate some thoughts concerning debut novels, and whether hitting that sweet spot is that important.

    The current project is Sci-Fi, and is the first book in a 6-part series that will transition to Sci-Fi Fantasy in the latter three.

    I am currently at 89K, and was shooting for 100-120K when I started the project. I am expecting at least 2-3 more chapters to bring it to a conclusion, and expect to add some detail as I begin working through the second version. I know that there are some areas I could cut, but would rather not. Whether I do or not may be determined by the advice I get.

    I am not opposed to self-publishing, but I did think sending out a few (or more than a few, lol) queries couldn't hurt.

    Your thoughts?
     
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  2. Rad Scribbler

    Rad Scribbler Faber est suae quisque fortunae Contributor

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    As has been mentioned on another discussion thread, the story is finished when the writer thinks it is. Personally I don't think the word count is of importance for a debut novel irrespective if it is 90K, 100K, etc.
     
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  3. Homer Potvin

    Homer Potvin A tombstone hand and a graveyard mind Staff Supporter Contributor

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    It is if you want to sell it. Production and shipping cost increases with length and weight. And physical storage capacity reduces with size. With a debut novel, you're taking a larger financial risk on an unknown commodity, so anything that lessens liability will make it more attractive. Especially when you have 9 zillion submissions for 12 slots. There are of course exceptions, but in general, that 90k is relatively hard ceiling. Think of it like a bank: they're not going to give a million dollar loan to a novice, no matter how solid their business plan is. But a small quarter million loan for a model you believe will return on its investment? A reasonable risk.
     
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  4. Rad Scribbler

    Rad Scribbler Faber est suae quisque fortunae Contributor

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    Fair enough. I wasn't looking at it from that angle but, yeah, I can see the logic in your reasoning.
     
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  5. Bruce Johnson

    Bruce Johnson Contributor Contributor Contest Winner 2023

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    Some agents supposedly have rules to immediately reject any debut novel greater than say 90k words or some other threshold.
     
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  6. Rad Scribbler

    Rad Scribbler Faber est suae quisque fortunae Contributor

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    I wasn't aware of that, so thanks.
     
  7. Homer Potvin

    Homer Potvin A tombstone hand and a graveyard mind Staff Supporter Contributor

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    I have no information on it, but I have to think publishers are getting CRUSHED financially right now. Shipping cost, fuel costs, raw material shortage, labor shortages, inflation, self-pub popularity, penny-pinching public, explosion of digital entertainment, shorter attention spans, declines in reading comprehension. Those last two are opinions but the rest are gutshot business facts. Their risk adversity has to be in 99th percentile right now. One mistake and you're fucked... and probably overnight fucked, not "let's see what happens Q4" fucked.

    As a restaurant business man I'm in the quarterly fucked category. I usually do projections and budgets two quarters out. Now it's month to month spray and pray. Financial month July closes in 9 hours for me and my hands are quite literally perched above the keyboard to enter the final numbers. One tenth of a percentage point is the difference between 15 people keeping their jobs or not.

    Business. Sucks. Ass.
     
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  8. X Equestris

    X Equestris Contributor Contributor

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    Based on everything I’ve heard, the current sweet spot for debut novels in most genres is 80k-100k. Fantasy and science fiction get a pass up to around 120k or 125k because of the need for worldbuilding, but your odds are better if you can keep the word count down.

    Over on another forum, a former first reader mentioned their instructions were to automatically reject any debut novel longer than 150k.
     
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  9. P1LGR1M

    P1LGR1M Member

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    I will say that certain aspects of life remained sheltered when we see face insane inflation and gas prices (just to name a few issues), and when it comes to those who regularly purchase books, I think this is going to be one of those untouched havens.

    Numerous hours spent with a book compared to the cost of going to a movie and paying through the nose for 2-3 hours of entertainment, well, the book is going to be the best value.

    The restaurant business has been hit hard since the plandemic erupted on the scene (No, I am not a conspiracy theorist but I do think much of it was orchestrated and exploited). Throw on top of that the increase in fuel and shipping costs and, boom!

    The good news for you, though, is that because groceries have gotten to the point where, unless you are on a beans and rice budget (which is something that is actually a good idea, lol), going out to eat runs about the same as going to the store ($gas$), buying the ingredients ($ingredients$), and cooking it yourself ($electricity, charcoal, propane, etc$). Hitting the value menu—it costs less!

    So my advice? Specials, specials, specials! I would think for your waitstaff, their money is largely in tips, isn't it?

    Being a business owner myself, when I started out I did a LOT of work at a low price because I just didn't know where to price the work, coupled with the fear that I wouldn't get the work if I priced too high. 20 years later and I do know where to price the work, but I am sick of the trade (HVAC, and I've been doing it a little over 35 years). The point is this: if you are concerned about keeping your employees working, it's going to be volume that does that. Having a menu that is a little more economical that will draw people in is going to be a good idea. Certain food items at a great price on certain nights, for example.

    When my wife and I go out to eat, sometimes I/we might splurge and order higher-priced items, or get an appetizer (things that add to the total of the bill), so keep the specialties where they are. Just offer something that will be "too good to pass up," lol.

    I'm not a penny-pincher, unfortunately, so there's always going to be folk like me who are just going to want to go out to dinner sometimes. So hang in there. We've seen presidents and governing bodies run our countries in the dirt before and we survived, we will survive this too.

    One of the things that we have been more inclined to do recently (when it's busy) is order take-out. And as I said, often it's a comparable cost to do this compared to buying food and preparing it yourself. So stick a sign out that reads "We can make it for you cheaper than you can make it yourself!" lol. You might not get the tips, but you might just sell a lot of food.

    Again, hang in there!
     

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