When we say burnt toast where I am we are using it as a noun; like raisin bread, corn bread, etc. If we caused it we would say I burned the toast. You're assuming I don't know a noun from an adjective but that is due to you not minding your own business. I know exactly what I am talking about. And I'll say it again, will the usual instigators and de-railers please leave me alone when I am talking to someone else. This thread was minding it's own business until the "clucking chickens" showed up to de-rail.
How did you know it wasn't a noun? I didn't put any context to it. I know you know it all but when I say I use it as a noun I know what I am talking about. I can't help it if YOU didn't know what I meant when I gave another sentence to compare it to. Anyone who uses burnt toast as a noun knew what I was talking about. Who cares if you don't. They don't need you coming in here trying to clarify things for them, I'm sure they can take care of themselves.
If you want to give incorrect grammar and writing advice without being corrected, the best solution might be for you to create your own forum. Edited to add: Or perhaps a blog. You seem a bit unclear on what a forum is. A forum is usually a many-to-many conversation. A one-to-many conversation, which seems to be what you're seeking, is well supported by a blog.
Maybe you should just stop being a bully. Other people can ask for clarification on their own you know if they didn't get it. Just because you always have to have the last word doesn't mean anyone else can't accept my explanation that I do indeed only use it as a noun and POLITELY ask me to explain if they didn't. How come when one of the other chickens show up, you eventually show up? I'm beginning to wonder if you all are the same person with multiple accounts or something. If I am correct, tenderiser will be showing up to give you back up soon. You always get likes and back ups from the same crowd, I noticed. Hmmmm......
Mods, please stop this madness. They are about to derail a perfectly fun thread again with their know-it-all-ness and total need to have the last word, Jesus, on anything.
This is a forum about writing. When you give incorrect advice about writing...we're going to correct you. Because it's a forum about writing. You seem to think that you are being bullied. You might want to consider that the possibility is that you are the person who is most prone to make incorrect statements and then aggressively defend their own incorrectness. If you stopped making incorrect statements, I'm confident that you would find that I, at least, would cease to be aware of your existence. Think about it. If you research your statements before making them, you would both (1) learn and (2) be free of interaction with me. What's not to like?
We have big books full of words we can look at when we need to understand more about a certain word. They're called dictionaries. I've chosen an American one for the following definition so you don't get started on your "we don't do that over here" nonsense. Ready? Merriam-Webster at https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/burnt: burnt adjective \ ˈbərnt \ Definition of burnt 1: consumed, altered, or damaged by or as if by fire or heat //burnt toast Do you see how they're using the exact same example you used and it's under the heading of burnt as an adjective? If you follow the link, you'll see that there's no entry for burnt as a noun. Do you know why that is? It's because burnt isn't a noun. Seriously, these aren't grey areas you're playing around in. They're really black and white. Obviously it's tempting to just put you on Ignore, but then I'd belong to a writers forum in which absolutely nonsensical statements about grammar and usage are allowed to stand unchallenged, and I don't want that. So the solution is probably for you to put ME on Ignore. I can follow along after you as needed and correct your silliness, and you don't ever have to know about it. Reasonable?
This is a great idea. EBOhio, please put me on ignore, too, OK? Then you won't have to report me for talking about writing on a writing forum.
@EBohio..please don’t be distressed or disheartened by the forum. People understand it can feel like ‘the playground’ of old with cliques & groupings and such, but it should be an activity to provide you pleasure. Your voice is important. If you feel teased tease back, or walk a way a while.
I said I use it as a noun and you just aren't going to let me be on that are you? And aren't English dictionarys different than American ones? A'int is also in the dictionary but my English teachers would have jumped all over me for using that too. If you can't take my word for it that English teachers over here would correct us for using burnt improperly then why can't you just call me a liar. Why do you have to assume I am as ignorant as you are? Mods, please. I can't be the only one that complains about the clucking chickens. Can I get a break here?
She...specifically said that she was using an American dictionary. Did I miss something? Are you British?
I'm not walking away from a thread I was in and just minding my own business in this time. I'm insisting this time the mods insist on everybody being able to participate with out bullshit all the time. You don't have to get personal with people when you disagree with them.
I did specifically say that I was using an American dictionary. If you want the British definition you can check out Oxford at https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/burnt and see that they don't even acknowledge the use of "burnt" as an adjective at all. Apparently in the UK it's ONLY correct as the past and past participle of burn. So... there's nowhere that "burnt" is a noun, not that I can see. If you're able to provide a source, I'm happy to be corrected, but it needs to be an actual SOURCE, not you babbling about your English teachers again.
I've created a thread for the "meta" element of this discussion: https://www.writingforums.org/threads/is-disagreement-ever-allowed-in-a-discussion-forum.161374/
Nah, you guys are no fun to talk to...it's like hitting your head against a brick wall. How many times can I say we (at least most I know) use it like corn bread, raisin bread, wheat bread. Those can't be used as nouns?? Just leave me alone, talk to the others that bow down to you (I'm convinced you're talking to yourself). And there are plenty of people that might say "I burnt myself, but the English teacher will correct them and tell them to use "burned". Again, "ain't" is in the dictionary, but that doesn't mean the English teacher won't correct you.
In that example, you're using it as a verb. This whole fight has been about perhaps nouns and perhaps adjectives. You're changing the discussion again.
If you want to discuss this subset of the issues, I'll discuss them in the thread in the Debate Forum.
Possibly you've just had really bad English teachers? But dictionaries are good... really, they are. If you don't want to follow dictionaries b/c you're a descriptivist grammarian rather than a prescriptivist, okay, but then you need to stop referring to your English teachers as authorities. Does that make sense? Refusing to accept the authority of a dictionary is fair if you also refuse to accept the authority of English teachers. But to accept one and not the other is strange. And, of course, as mentioned before - I used to BE an English teacher, so if you accept the authority of English teachers... you should stop arguing with me! In terms of "wheat bread", etc., I believe we're looking at compound nouns. That is, "wheat" is a noun, not an adjective (as our friend Mr. Webster will confirm, at https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/wheat) so when it's used in the context above, it joins with "bread" to form a compound noun. You're right that it has a similar structure to "burnt toast" but still wrong that "burnt" is functioning as a noun in that phrase. "Burnt toast" could be considered a compound noun, possibly, but it would be a compound formed by the adjective + noun formation, not a noun + noun formation. That's because, again, "burnt" isn't a noun.
So, I'm going to amble through this discussion. I don't see "burnt toast" as a noun. I see it as a noun (toast) plus an adjective (burnt). "burnt toast" seems similar to "broken cup". "Burnt" is describing the defective nature of the toast. I don't think that anyone would try to argue that "broken" is a noun. Let's look at phrases that don't express a defect. "Cornbread" is usually expressed as a single word, so I'm not looking at that. So, say, "raisin bread" or "garlic bread" or "ribeye steak". In these phrases, I would say that raisin, garlic, and ribeye are adjectives. But I'm less certain than I am with "burnt toast", and I think that's because the adjective is not expressing a defect. I don't know if that makes sense or not. I'm trying to think of a phrase like this where we do all unambiguously agree that the whole phrase is a noun, rather than an adjective+noun. I want that to give boundaries to the discussion in the other direction--"broken cup" is unambiguously adjective+noun. Can anyone offer something that is unambiguously just noun?
Compound noun! That's the phrase I was looking for. What about raisin toast, garlic bread, and ribeye steak?
I think "wheat toast" is a good example, and that's why I'm calling it a compound noun. The "wheat" is functioning as an adjective (giving more information about a noun) but it isn't actually a noun. Wikipedia calls it a noun adjunct at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noun_adjunct (I try to ignore the vaguely threatening "chicken soup" example in the first paragraph!!).
I am inspired to make some cranberry pecan sourdough toast in lieu of popcorn for me to snack on while enjoying this back and forth.
I feel like raisin and garlic are clearly nouns... I'm less clear about ribeye. Can it ever function on its own? Yeah, it can... you can buy a ribeye. So I'd say they're compound nouns as well?
