No matter how much the writer tries to distance themselves and recreate a certain time it's still going to have nowaday inflections and that's where the rub comes. I've read a lot of bodice rippers in my time and they fell into the same trap and quite a few were a notch about rape fantasies and forerunners to Fifty Shades of Gray. They weren't replicating certain times as much as the writers attitude of certain times. This can be okay. But not when dicey subjects come into play -- especially if you're not that an experienced writer who has to write in nuances guiding the reader. I think the OP needs to sit down and really think about what she's writing, why she's writing it. Forget all this self-indulgence that the characters want to be written that way (believe me I've been there -- it's not a road to stay on) and reassess her creative goals. I think if you need to ask how a thirteen year old can fall in love with a twenty-four year old forced to marry her and rapes her -- it's time to write something else.
This is the problem - the story in question WILL be "written in our time" and it will be read in our time. It's not SET in our time, no, but I don't think we can apply ancient standards of morality just because our book is set in ancient times. So, for example, back in the day it used to be considered okay to keep black people as slaves. Reprehensible by modern standards. Doesn't mean we can't write a historical novel in which black people are enslaved, but we should be careful to ensure that we don't make the practice seem less than reprehensible. Because, again, we're writing in the modern world and being read in the modern world. So having a child marry an adult happened in old times, but is considered reprehensible in the modern world. So in an old-timey novel, we might have a child marry an adult, but it would make it seem less reprehensible if we then had a romance between the child and the adult.
i did not read the whole thread but I did read your writings. So I don't know if someone suggested this: You are stressing plot all the time here. You don't tell much about the inner life of your characters. - What motivates them? - What they fear? - What they are ashamed? - What they are interested in? - What they trust in themselves and what not? - How emotionally and socially independent they are? - What is their understanding of romantic and or sexual love? - What concerns they have? - What makes them frustrated, anxious, hopeful... - What they know? - What they believe? - What not? How they behave when those things happen? You can find answers from your own life. Some you must borrow from understanding and experiences of other people, books, tv, movies, social media... My advice is to take distance to plot for week or two. Use that time to get familiar with your characters inner life and experiences - and also lack of them. It is possible that your characters answer you after that. And not one of us can give you better answer than your characters. It is their life.
@GirlWriter101 From the extensive history (actual, not fictional) that I've read in my lifetime, I learned that back in the day when young people got married young, they were not left to wonder what would happen in bed, etc. Prudishness and ignorant innocence is really a product of the Victorian age, and it's still hanging around a bit. Folks were quite worldly back then, and I suspect no child bride went to the marriage bed without knowing exactly what was expected of her. She would not only have been told what was expected, but she probably would have been given a graphic picture of what it would be like from all aspects. That age difference of 11-ish years between your young couple would not have been considered any huge gap. A huge gap would have been a young person marrying somebody old enough to be her grandfather. In other words, 'an old man.' And yes, this was often done as well. I think if you focus on something OTHER than the age difference, you'll manage this story a bit less awkwardly. If, as you say, this kind of marriage was normal in that period (in your fantasy) and girls were considered to be adults at puberty, then the characters will not be concerned with age. He won't. She won't. It's only if you start to make the age difference into a big deal that you're going to get into bother with the paedophilia angle. You could even reverse the situation. HE is the one who should have been married long ago, but because of his injury he hasn't been. In other words, he's the one out of step. Or something like that. Back then, a woman who was likely to be married for dynastic reasons would have been raised knowing that was going to happen. She would not have expected to marry for love. She would probably have hoped to have a kind husband, and one she could be proud of and would keep her in fine style. So it would be easy to start with that, and have them grow into love. They might fall in love AFTER they marry. I think that is a very plausible scenario.
As far as I see it, you have two options: Downplay and take your time developing any romance Make the girl older So I suppose the question is: do you want it to be a more complex and questionable affair, or a more straight forward one? The first has an element of obvious interest, it has superficial novelty and it could explore some interesting issues. But obviously puts a lot more pressure on doing things right.
Well as per the usual, @BayView said what I was thinking, and much more succinctly. Something else that comes to mind for me is The Thorn Birds. It was one of my favorite books as a young teenager, but OMG I tried re-reading it recently and holy shit what I thought was a bittersweet romance now read to me as the creepy-ass grooming of a child and her family over decades by a priest in a position of power. I kind of threw up in my mouth a little bit; I know the book isn't even that old, but it was NOT written for the sensibilities of modern readers, especially in the wake of so many recently exposed cover ups of the sexual abuse of children.
It's been a long time since I read the book but based on my recollection, the sex was less rape-y in the book than it was on the TV show. (I haven't watched the entire TV show, but I've watched the scene). I think the TV show wouldn't have gotten away with the scene if the character had been 13...
Yeah, there isn't really any sure way around the situation, is there? If we write from the modern perspective, then a young girl just past puberty marrying a guy 11 years older than she is WILL be an issue. You can try to pretty it up with a romance, but there it is. And a romance might even make it worse, because it implies sexual attraction—which can be called paedophilia. The only way to truly make this a non-issue is to raise the ages of the people involved. If the author doesn't want to do this, then there will be some modern readers who will scream 'paedophile!' However, I think IF the author can establish the normalcy of the age thing in the world she's creating, and establish that the child-bride is considered an adult at the 'time' of the story, then it's possible to pull it off with minimal screaming. If the plot revolves around a 24-year-old falling in love with someone whom he sees as an innocent child, or his child-bride seeing herself as being young and inexperienced, then I don't see how you could avoid the charge of paedophilia. If, however, the reverse is the case—if the two characters don't see the age as an issue at all, but have a problem with something else altogether—then the plot has a chance of sneaking itself past unofficial censors.
Pretty much. In the book it’s closer to consensual in the moment, in the TV show she’s older, but it’s still enough to make me ashamed of enjoying the parts of those books that I do enjoy. However, there’s so much full-tilt evil in those books that no one’s likely to look at much of anything in them with a fond smile.
As a reader, even if the situation was considered normal at the time, I'm never going to find the idea of a child bride in a book anything but gross and 100% a turn-off. Just because it happened (and still happens in some parts of the world) doesn't mean it was something that I can cheer on just because that was how things were done back then. I wouldn't be screaming necessarily, but it would be going in my DNF list fairly quick.
Yeah, I don't see any way around that reaction, other than to raise the age of the participants. And it sounds as if the young/old thing is the main factor driving @GirlWriter101 's plot. This might be a case of a problem that can't really be solved, as is.
Just to clarify - you'd have a serious problem with the child bride in any circumstances, or you'd just have a problem if the marriage was presented as a happy, romantic relationship between a child and an adult. Like, is it the event itself that you'd really object to, or the attitude toward the event?
I fully understand, and I have the similar issue, even in my own writings I try to keep characters above the age of 15 when it comes to romance, and even thing it's still a bit uncomfortable, even if the setting would warrant them being of a younger age. My Current MC was suppose to be 14 when she has her child, (in the original rough) but when I rewrote it, I increased it so she would be 16 instead.
Yes, it is. There are dozens and dozens of rape/sexual violence scenes in the books. HBO has trimmed the raping down to more tolerable levels... so that all the teenage boys tuning in won't spend so much time in the bathroom with their mother's hand lotion. Though I can no longer speak with authority concerning Game of Thrones, either the books or the TV adaption. I gave up on both a long, long time ago.
You're a teenage girl... put yourself in your young protagonist's position and write what comes to you. And be brave about it.
Oh yes, presented as a romantic relationship, one that I'm supposed to root for, and hope that they eventually live happily ever after. I just can't get past the squick factor. If it's presented as something gross and wrong that happened or happens I won't enjoy reading about it, but it becomes more of a data/plot point than a relationship to invest any emotional energy in. I honestly don't really run into it much, though, as I don't read much of anything that's set in a fantasy or historical setting. Probably 90% of my reading material at this point is contemporary romance.
Very good point. I did wonder, although I haven't checked. Age can be funny when it comes to writing. I would struggle to come up with a main character who is significantly older than myself. Fortunately I'm 69 years old, so that gives me a lot of scope. But I would be hard pushed to write a story where the main character is, say, 80. I just don't know what it will feel like to reach 80 (if I manage it.) I can remember back to when I was 15 though. If I were 15 years old, I would struggle to write from the point of view of a character significantly older than myself. I'm not saying it can't be done ...of course it can be done. But maybe our OP doesn't feel comfortable with it ...yet.
I totally see that, but in that case surely the male side of the romance could also be an adolescent.
